WEBVTT

1
00:00:14.178 --> 00:00:21.958
Sukanya Sinha: perfect so yes, I'm gonna go ahead and introduce the panelists.


2
00:00:22.088 --> 00:00:37.948
Sukanya Sinha: Probably I mean it's it's if I introduce them properly, it's going to take the whole day. So I'm going to be brief and let them speak about their labs themselves. So 1st off on the panelist we have Professor Takayuki Saiki from Kk.


3
00:00:37.968 --> 00:00:47.898
Sukanya Sinha: And he has been in Tokyo since he obtained his Phd. From Tokyo in 1996,


4
00:00:47.898 --> 00:01:12.797
Sukanya Sinha: and then eventually, after several stints in different institutes, he has moved to Kk. Since 2,004 as a faculty, and now he is working on the green international linear collider activities for more than 10 years. And he's on the Icfa panel for sustainable accelerators and colliders since 2015.


5
00:01:12.928 --> 00:01:41.477
Sukanya Sinha: Really nice to have you here. The next person on the panel is Sonia Kleiner. She's the head of Cern's Hsc. Environmental group, and of course, amongst different hats. She has a master's degree in geological engineering and hydrology, and she has been involved in Cern in different aspects since the end of 1998, essentially


6
00:01:41.944 --> 00:01:52.218
Sukanya Sinha: so since 2021, she has been leading the Cern environmental group, and we are really excited to have her here.


7
00:01:52.288 --> 00:02:21.818
Sukanya Sinha: The 3rd person is Professor Dr. Marami Cado from the Max Planck Institute of Physics. He's the director for an Heisenberg Institute, and of course he has also been in several different Institutes throughout his career. But more recently, just before his start as the director of Max Planck Institute of Physics, he was also the Atlas Deputy Spokesperson for the year of 2021 to 2023,


8
00:02:22.138 --> 00:02:48.488
Sukanya Sinha: and yes, happy to have you here, Mari, and finally, we have Professor Zhi Hao, who is the Cpc. Accelerator convener. We heard an interesting talk from him yesterday about Cpc's initiatives, and we are really excited to have him. He's had several different major roles of responsibility in Ihep.


9
00:02:48.648 --> 00:03:14.517
Sukanya Sinha: where he is currently a professor, and he has been involved in the technical design report for Cpc. And essentially, now he is in the Machine Advisory Committee, and also in the Executive Committee for Cpc. And he's a part of the Icfa beam dynamics panel. So yes, I mean great to have you all here.


10
00:03:14.688 --> 00:03:19.897
Sukanya Sinha: so I think now I would request each one of you to kind of give


11
00:03:20.258 --> 00:03:34.548
Sukanya Sinha: a proper introduction to your lab, because I could not do justice to it. I will start in the order that I had introduced you. So maybe if Takayuki you can start. If you have slides you can share them.


12
00:03:35.158 --> 00:03:38.308
Takayuki SAEKI: Okay, can I share now?


13
00:03:40.148 --> 00:03:41.298
Takayuki SAEKI: So


14
00:03:45.918 --> 00:03:47.667
Takayuki SAEKI: can you see my slide?


15
00:03:47.668 --> 00:03:48.658
Takayuki SAEKI: Yes, perfect.


16
00:03:48.658 --> 00:03:55.687
Takayuki SAEKI: Okay. Okay. So my name is Takayuki Saiki. I'm working at Kk.


17
00:03:56.328 --> 00:04:05.137
Takayuki SAEKI: and this is just a very brief history of Kk. Kk. Was established in 1971


18
00:04:05.528 --> 00:04:16.388
Takayuki SAEKI: and proton accelerator was constructed in 1976, and proton factory was constructed in 1982,


19
00:04:16.828 --> 00:04:31.478
Takayuki SAEKI: and Tristan accelerator. This is E plus E minus accelerator, and for the 1st time in the world. They constructed accelerator by superconducting accelerator.


20
00:04:31.988 --> 00:04:40.728
Takayuki SAEKI: So they installed 32 Naomi accelerator cavity


21
00:04:40.958 --> 00:04:48.608
Takayuki SAEKI: and realized a very big mass scale accelerator in the world for the 1st time.


22
00:04:48.918 --> 00:04:55.668
Takayuki SAEKI: and the Kkb accelerator was constructed in 1998. This is a high luminosity machine.


23
00:04:55.898 --> 00:05:04.248
Takayuki SAEKI: and Kkb contributed to the established base of Kobayashi Maskawa theory and experiments.


24
00:05:04.918 --> 00:05:16.788
Takayuki SAEKI: and 2,009 Kk, constructed. Jpac, this is proton accelerator. And now Super Kkb has been in operation now.


25
00:05:17.458 --> 00:05:20.363
Takayuki SAEKI: So I'm working in the


26
00:05:21.821 --> 00:05:43.657
Takayuki SAEKI: this Kk laboratory, and Kk. Has a 1 kilometer diameter accelerator. So of course, it's very huge, and people think so many, you know, so much electricity is consumed in this big machine.


27
00:05:44.038 --> 00:05:49.997
Takayuki SAEKI: So we are very sensitive to the energy consumption and also the sustainability.


28
00:05:50.968 --> 00:06:09.028
Takayuki SAEKI: And one thing I'm I'm involved in the superconducting accelerator technology. So I think, the most important thing in in my mind is the how to how to


29
00:06:09.755 --> 00:06:13.458
Takayuki SAEKI: reduce the consumption. Electricity by technology


30
00:06:13.928 --> 00:06:28.917
Takayuki SAEKI: means accelerator technology. And I'm involved in the superconducting accelerator technology. And I'm in the such division so-called Innovation Center for Applied superconducting accelerator at Kek.


31
00:06:30.728 --> 00:06:55.608
Takayuki SAEKI: And also I'm involved in the mainly involved in the R. And D of the future collider. It's a so-called international linear collider the length of the terminal linear terminal is 20 kilometer long, and it's e plus E minus and the it's not approved yet.


32
00:06:55.838 --> 00:07:06.757
Takayuki SAEKI: But to realize this government is very sensitive to sensitive to the energy consumption, because it's very huge.


33
00:07:07.469 --> 00:07:19.297
Takayuki SAEKI: So if we would like to realize this project. We need to. We need to show how it's sustainable.


34
00:07:20.848 --> 00:07:22.138
Takayuki SAEKI: Project.


35
00:07:22.478 --> 00:07:23.318
Takayuki SAEKI: So


36
00:07:24.708 --> 00:07:36.207
Takayuki SAEKI: Also, this project is based on the technology of superconductivity so superconducting accelerator is very high, efficient.


37
00:07:36.518 --> 00:07:43.557
Takayuki SAEKI: so highly efficient. The Q value of the accelerator component is 10 to 10,


38
00:07:43.928 --> 00:07:51.368
Takayuki SAEKI: and we are achieving more than 10 to 10 year by year. The Q value is increasing.


39
00:07:51.718 --> 00:07:57.837
Takayuki SAEKI: I don't go into the details about superconductivity as one solution


40
00:07:58.028 --> 00:08:03.798
Takayuki SAEKI: in the Hep world to realize the sustainability, I think.


41
00:08:04.738 --> 00:08:16.647
Takayuki SAEKI: And also we are thinking that the Ilc realization we need to achieve real sustainability.


42
00:08:16.888 --> 00:08:21.327
Takayuki SAEKI: Otherwise we cannot have the green light to the Ioc.


43
00:08:23.228 --> 00:08:36.457
Takayuki SAEKI: And this kind of trial we we've been doing for a long time we started. I think if I remember it's 2,013


44
00:08:38.058 --> 00:08:45.148
Takayuki SAEKI: is triggered in the energy for sustainability, science workshop, a second workshop


45
00:08:45.348 --> 00:08:54.468
Takayuki SAEKI: at sun, and we dispatched 3 presenters from Kk. Or from Ilc community.


46
00:08:54.618 --> 00:09:03.208
Takayuki SAEKI: So we are very long time challenging this project this kind of a subject.


47
00:09:04.377 --> 00:09:16.527
Takayuki SAEKI: and for long term challenge what we are aiming is a kind of this picture. This is Ilc town.


48
00:09:16.638 --> 00:09:37.958
Takayuki SAEKI: After realizing this kind of a very big project, we need to construct the accelerator, but also we need to construct the town surrounding the facility. So I think this kind of a image is already realized by Ess in Europe.


49
00:09:38.618 --> 00:09:47.787
Takayuki SAEKI: But if we can achieve this kind of a town in Japan with Ilc, it's very nice.


50
00:09:49.368 --> 00:10:12.998
Takayuki SAEKI: And also it's very important to collaborate with industry. We are in academia. But the industry is also the partner for the big project. So we are organizing the Academia Industry Association.


51
00:10:13.308 --> 00:10:25.237
Takayuki SAEKI: So this is a kind of a structure. We don't go into the details. But we started this activity from 2,014. So it's almost 10 years.


52
00:10:26.768 --> 00:10:37.228
Takayuki SAEKI: and these are the activities. Every year we are doing a workshop for Ilc ilc


53
00:10:37.398 --> 00:10:48.558
Takayuki SAEKI: study. And each workshop we have one dedicated session for the sustainability.


54
00:10:49.328 --> 00:10:55.317
Takayuki SAEKI: So okay, so that's all. For from my side. Okay, thank you.


55
00:10:56.138 --> 00:11:12.238
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you, Takayuki, for the very nice introduction to green ilc, and the cool plans that you guys have. Next, I'd like to invite Sonia to go ahead and give an introduction to their group's work.


56
00:11:13.648 --> 00:11:17.778
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Yeah, hello to everyone, so I will share.


57
00:11:19.268 --> 00:11:21.478
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Can you see my screen.


58
00:11:21.478 --> 00:11:22.198
Sukanya Sinha: Yes.


59
00:11:24.588 --> 00:11:40.138
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Great. So it's a pleasure to be here. I'm Sonia Kleiner, and I'm the head of the Environment group that is within the Hsc. Unit at Cern. So that's the occupational health and safety and environmental protection unit.


60
00:11:40.658 --> 00:11:49.618
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So as highlighted before, I work since 26 years at Cern, and I've always been working in the field of environmental protection at Cern.


61
00:11:49.978 --> 00:12:11.357
Sonja Kleiner CERN: so briefly introducing Cern. I don't know if that is still useful, but I will just remind it because it gives a dimension on what it means. Environment and sustainability at Cern. So, as you may know, it's the largest particle physics laboratory in the world. It was founded in 1954


62
00:12:11.728 --> 00:12:22.368
Sonja Kleiner CERN: run by 24 Member States. It employs more than 3,500 people, but we have a wide range of users.


63
00:12:22.558 --> 00:12:35.668
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and since we have a new visitor center, we are able to, let's say, welcome 350,000 visitors a year, and I think we are almost approaching 400,000 currently.


64
00:12:36.438 --> 00:13:03.697
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So you certainly know that Cern's mission is really, I would say, to perform research, but also to strengthen international collaboration, of course, has a strong, I would say, mission also linked to education and training, and also, of course, last, but not least, all what concerns technological development and innovation.


65
00:13:03.728 --> 00:13:20.218
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So maybe you have noticed that since a few years we introduced the notion of doing, I would say, environmentally responsible and sustainable operation and research at Cern has been explicitly introduced in the in the mission of the laboratory.


66
00:13:21.138 --> 00:13:39.147
Sonja Kleiner CERN: also to give a bit more information that make us understand better the environmental dimension. At Cern we have 70 kilometers of tunnels, 80 underground caverns, 1,000 kilometers of technical galleries and trenches.


67
00:13:39.498 --> 00:13:55.508
Sonja Kleiner CERN: We have to manage about yeah, more than 650 buildings, and we also have a wide domain to to manage 623 hectares that are actually made available by Switzerland and France.


68
00:13:55.808 --> 00:14:17.677
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And what you have to keep in mind is that we have built surfaces, I would say, of a total of about 100 hectares or fenced areas. So actually, we have also to manage, I would say, still, a domain that is today in the hands, maybe mainly, of agriculture


69
00:14:17.678 --> 00:14:26.808
Sonja Kleiner CERN: operation in the area. But yeah, or forestry. And we also need to take care of of that.


70
00:14:28.098 --> 00:14:46.278
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So the current strategy at Cern for environment and sustainability is really focusing on 3 main lines of actions. The 1st one is to minimize the current impact of the laboratory as activities on the environment.


71
00:14:46.638 --> 00:15:04.708
Sonja Kleiner CERN: The second line is to push your actions and technologies, aiming explicitly at energy savings and reuse. Knowing that the reuse is, I would say, a more recent notion that has been really integrated over the last years in the laboratory.


72
00:15:04.878 --> 00:15:29.317
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and finally, to identify and develop science technology that may contribute to, I would say, mitigate the impact of society on the environment. So this is fully aligned to the last update of the European Strategy for particle physics that includes a chapter dedicated to environment and social issues.


73
00:15:29.488 --> 00:15:40.058
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And it's really formally written also in the objectives of the organizations that were of the organization that were defined for the period 2125.


74
00:15:40.778 --> 00:16:10.768
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So we also just a few information on energy. You may be also aware that we we have awarded the Iso 5 0 1 certification in 23, I mean have in mind that we have a consumption and electricity consumption of about 1.3 terawatt hour per year. So I mean, that's why I would say the organization is really committed to efficient energy management.


75
00:16:10.778 --> 00:16:26.138
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and of course this certification has to. I mean, be kept. One thing is being certified, but then we are subject to regular audits, and have really to prove that we also optimize and improve the energy management at Cern.


76
00:16:26.148 --> 00:16:45.557
Sonja Kleiner CERN: For that purpose we have issued an energy policy, and also in the framework of this Iso 5 0 1 certification we have, I would say, some saving plan that foreseen up to horizon 2030, about some savings of 100 gigawatt hour per year.


77
00:16:45.628 --> 00:17:03.977
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So this is not yet visible, I would say, because, of course, we have increasing operations due to our accelerator operation or increased luminosity error that will also come. But be aware that we have, of course, some saving actions that are running in parallel.


78
00:17:04.788 --> 00:17:19.687
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and one of our also big concern within the organization is linked to the direct Co 2 emissions that we have actually, most of them are coming from the large electric experiments.


79
00:17:19.688 --> 00:17:35.167
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So since I would say many years now, we have a strategy in place for research and development to minimize the emissions of fluorinated gazes from the Lhc large experiments.


80
00:17:35.268 --> 00:17:54.727
Sonja Kleiner CERN: This is really based on recirculation and optimization of the gas systems, gas recovery. And of course, the research for more friendly alternatives, meaning reducing the concentration of fluorinated gases that are in the experimental gas mixtures.


81
00:17:54.828 --> 00:18:16.848
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Atlas and Cms have also really undertaken huge efforts to transit from a per fluorocarbon system for cooling the detectors to a Co. 2 cooling system that will be integrated during our next shutdown period. That is approaching. It will start mid 26,


82
00:18:17.008 --> 00:18:41.297
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and also worth to notice that since August 23rd Atlas is really operating a specific type of detectors with a new gas mixture, meaning using less fluorinated gazes. So we also are able now to lower the Co 2 emissions from this specific categories of detectors.


83
00:18:41.868 --> 00:18:51.077
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I will not go into these detail, but just also be aware that we have fixed some objectives for the horizon, 2030


84
00:18:51.168 --> 00:19:14.787
Sonja Kleiner CERN: for our high priority domains that are energy emissions and also water, but of course we also fixed for all of the other, I would say domains. So these are explicitly the 3 high priority domains on objective 6, but they are in total, 9 of them.


85
00:19:15.098 --> 00:19:35.478
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And finally, just also for information, we have 3 public facing environment reports that are published since September 2020. We are working on the publication of the next one that will report over the period 2324, and this shall be published in autumn this year.


86
00:19:36.508 --> 00:19:38.147
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that's all. Thank you.


87
00:19:39.168 --> 00:19:58.807
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you, Sonia, for the very nice introduction to all the efforts at Cern. Next, I'd invite Marumi to present or even verbally update us of what's going on in kek. Sorry in Mip. Mpi. Go ahead, Marumi.


88
00:19:58.808 --> 00:20:19.617
Marumi Kado: Yes, thank you very much. So 1st of all, let me really thank you very much for inviting me to this panel. I'm certainly a different type of invitee here. So I'm currently so I will speak mostly for an Institute level. And and my institution is the Max Planck Society


89
00:20:19.958 --> 00:20:35.137
Marumi Kado: has more 200 institutes. But of course I am just at one of these institutes. So I'm representing mostly about 350 people. 1 3rd of the of this of these staff.


90
00:20:35.654 --> 00:20:59.871
Marumi Kado: Scientist, 1 3rd technicians, and 1 3rd engineers. So and and as as so kind of said at the start. My also was part of the Atlas management, but all the Atlas. Most of the Atlas initiatives have been presented now, so I've been. I always keep those. So yeah, so from this slightly different perspective.


91
00:21:01.568 --> 00:21:19.577
Marumi Kado: this is still sufficiently large an institute to talk about initiatives. And at the Max Plan Society. We have a climate action plan, and and this is that has a very clear intermediate target, that is to have the emissions by 2029,


92
00:21:19.918 --> 00:21:49.358
Marumi Kado: and it's to summarize what what we do with the mass bank is we try to electrify the vehicle fleet. Make sure that we? We finance travel by by encouraging train travel by with by financing the Deutschland ticket. If everybody knows about the Deutschland ticket, it's a ticket where you just it costs about €55 per month, and and and you can essentially travel anywhere in in Germany with that ticket.


93
00:21:50.108 --> 00:22:12.208
Marumi Kado: Also, we want. We, we finance, climate action and protection programs to compensate business travel. So certain countries, there are strict limitations on the travel. In the case of Max Planck. What we do is to finance climate protection programs to compensate the business travel.


94
00:22:13.113 --> 00:22:23.758
Marumi Kado: We also, we also strive to have a central data management system and and and and build eco-friendly echo efficient data centers.


95
00:22:24.903 --> 00:22:44.867
Marumi Kado: And we have a full refurbishment program buildings. So this is for the point is the case for us. We have a brand new building in Garshin which is energy efficient, and and this makes a very big difference in electricity consumption.


96
00:22:45.638 --> 00:22:53.657
Marumi Kado: And there is also a program of best practices for saving energy and installed solar panels on all of the buildings that we have.


97
00:22:54.438 --> 00:23:01.488
Marumi Kado: So what the Max bank society has done as well is to have a sustainability network.


98
00:23:02.066 --> 00:23:11.268
Marumi Kado: And this network for the moment is only on the voluntary basis. But but certainly in the future should have more.


99
00:23:11.448 --> 00:23:15.761
Marumi Kado: the more enforced or more.


100
00:23:19.818 --> 00:23:27.817
Marumi Kado: Yeah. Contribution from from each of the of of the institute that that has to be compulsory.


101
00:23:28.728 --> 00:23:45.507
Marumi Kado: One thing that I also wanted to mention in what the Max Planck Society does for for the environment is also biodiversity plan, and there it leverages the the expertise that it has from Max Planck Institutes in biology.


102
00:23:45.568 --> 00:24:01.077
Marumi Kado: or also from from the legal system. Max Planck Society Institute, and there it what it does. It ducks on all green spaces and all surrounding meadows, and it creates also habitats for biological diversity.


103
00:24:01.512 --> 00:24:08.608
Marumi Kado: In in each of the Institutes. So this is a this is a growing plan. And and the society


104
00:24:09.570 --> 00:24:24.858
Marumi Kado: but but of course it it is still, I would say, at at a level that is not sufficient. And and and my, in my view, what is the most urgent sustainability challenge, and that the loan


105
00:24:25.098 --> 00:24:34.987
Marumi Kado: our Institute is facing is to have a complete assessment of the Institute of each of the Institute's footprint. And this is this has not been done yet.


106
00:24:35.937 --> 00:24:45.328
Marumi Kado: Also, just just to mention a few, a few specific aspects of the Institute. We, we are working on


107
00:24:46.078 --> 00:25:07.788
Marumi Kado: acceleration concept is awake, which is proton driven plasma, field acceleration. So you had a presentation of the half project, which is a project of acceleration using electron plasma, Wakefield acceleration. So we're working on Proton Wakefield acceleration. And there's a concept for the possible


108
00:25:08.522 --> 00:25:18.773
Marumi Kado: future accelerator that that uses this. And of course this would have an impact on the energy consumption, but also, of course, also on the building


109
00:25:19.618 --> 00:25:20.528
Marumi Kado: footprint.


110
00:25:21.338 --> 00:25:50.587
Marumi Kado: and finally, also to add what was just said before about Atlas. We are also working. So, since our Institute is also working strongly on on Rpc. Chambers or gas chambers. In general, we are working on eco-friendly gas mixtures for Rpcs and and to try to avoid those very high global warming potential gases as we're currently using in Atlas.


111
00:25:51.318 --> 00:25:52.258
Marumi Kado: Thank you.


112
00:25:52.858 --> 00:26:09.917
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you, Murumi. That was a lot of information to share without slides. So, thanks for explaining the role of Mpi and Max Planck society in general, and now it's time for the final panelists. So if you would like to share.


113
00:26:09.918 --> 00:26:14.017
Jie Gao: Share. What's like that? Okay, so I will share.


114
00:26:14.738 --> 00:26:15.938
Jie Gao: And


115
00:26:21.598 --> 00:26:30.247
Jie Gao: okay. So thank you again for the kind invitation. So I'm really very pleased to to join this panel


116
00:26:30.548 --> 00:26:37.701
Jie Gao: and I will. My personal situation, I mean introduction has been,


117
00:26:39.227 --> 00:26:57.208
Jie Gao: introduced by the convener, and also on the list on the indigo. So I'm working on, I have. And right now, mainly on Cpc, and for a long time also, I've been working on linear Collider also.


118
00:26:58.540 --> 00:27:03.367
Jie Gao: since 2,010 has been Asia linear Collider steering committee chair.


119
00:27:03.518 --> 00:27:08.927
Jie Gao: So now, talking about Ihep. So Ihep


120
00:27:09.318 --> 00:27:16.967
Jie Gao: is right now is focusing. It's 1 of its field of for future


121
00:27:17.078 --> 00:27:21.688
Jie Gao: is Cpc. Which is a Higgs factory of 100 kilometer.


122
00:27:22.228 --> 00:27:36.317
Jie Gao: This Ihub is the host lab of the Cpc. So talking about Ihub, it was created in 73,


123
00:27:36.508 --> 00:27:43.197
Jie Gao: and now is more than 50 years of establishment of this Institute.


124
00:27:44.068 --> 00:27:49.528
Jie Gao: and from this picture we can see that ihap, has


125
00:27:50.038 --> 00:28:01.457
Jie Gao: quite a big range of activities. Surely, to start with is Bpc. Collider, E plus and minus Collider, which


126
00:28:01.598 --> 00:28:12.298
Jie Gao: has been completed into operation in 88, and even till now it's running and the upgrade program


127
00:28:13.078 --> 00:28:23.977
Jie Gao: has been completed. And now it's in commissioning started from March this year. So this machine Ppc upgrade program is in the commissioning


128
00:28:24.098 --> 00:28:26.948
Jie Gao: a project situation


129
00:28:27.528 --> 00:28:44.518
Jie Gao: and also the the 4th generation, light source 6 Gev. Which is the 1st generation, is almost completed, and should be completed at the end of totally completed at the end of this year. So already there are some lights goes out.


130
00:28:45.338 --> 00:29:14.268
Jie Gao: and so that is near Beijing, another campus, and that is for the the central radiation. And about it's in another campus in in, just in Guangdong, in phase of Hong Kong, and it's a spulation neutron source. And right now the 500 kilowatt program is the so-called second phase is under construction.


131
00:29:15.176 --> 00:29:24.978
Jie Gao: The 1st is, or has been running for quite a long years, and there are many other programs like, you know. Well, Diabete


132
00:29:25.108 --> 00:29:33.058
Jie Gao: retired, but it has measured the neutrino mixing angle, Theta 1, 3.


133
00:29:33.508 --> 00:29:41.197
Jie Gao: And right now it's a successor of the neutrino experiment, so-called the Juno.


134
00:29:42.038 --> 00:29:50.128
Jie Gao: It's the detector scintillator leakage. It's almost it's more than half


135
00:29:50.348 --> 00:29:57.467
Jie Gao: field. So maybe in July or August this machine can fully in operation


136
00:29:57.958 --> 00:30:05.978
Jie Gao: to make the neutrino measurement for the mass hierarchy. And these kind of things


137
00:30:08.139 --> 00:30:13.428
Jie Gao: also, you know, lasso this this


138
00:30:13.838 --> 00:30:22.248
Jie Gao: airshore observatory and has measured, completed 2 years before and have many scientific achievements.


139
00:30:22.408 --> 00:30:32.158
Jie Gao: And there is Ali Cbm polarization telescope. Right now. It's almost started to almost starting to take data.


140
00:30:33.018 --> 00:30:37.807
Takayuki SAEKI: And also there are many programs in the space.


141
00:30:37.968 --> 00:30:47.998
Jie Gao: Satellite for the heart. X-ray. This telescope, and also this so-called herd program.


142
00:30:49.618 --> 00:30:59.467
Jie Gao: which will be installed on the Chinese Space station in 2027, and and there's a hunt


143
00:30:59.888 --> 00:31:09.818
Jie Gao: underground underwater, so-called neutrino experiment is under programming in the South China Sea. So this is, I have almost


144
00:31:10.618 --> 00:31:34.178
Jie Gao: the main activities, I mean the main facilities and activities of ihap. So, as I said, Ihub is concentrating on this Higgs factory. So this is consumes so quite a big amount of energy, 200 for the baseline. For Higgs energy. It consumes


145
00:31:34.548 --> 00:31:51.388
Jie Gao: 260 megawatt power. So that is the motor for us to develop the green technologies to make Cpc a sustainable sustainable and the Green Heats factory, for example, high efficiency. Clystone.


146
00:31:51.538 --> 00:31:57.508
Jie Gao: I will not do too much in detail of this, because previously


147
00:31:57.828 --> 00:32:24.667
Jie Gao: yesterday I made a presentation on that. So you can see if you're interested further, even for the energy recovery, Cly strong to make the efficiency higher than more than higher than 80, and even 90. So for the moment, we have reached the highest 78% of efficiency, and also.


148
00:32:24.818 --> 00:32:35.577
Jie Gao: as Takai side, Sun said. We are also working on superconducting that is related to the the power consumption. So we try to increase the Q value.


149
00:32:35.868 --> 00:32:41.518
Jie Gao: So this is activity for superconducting. At the same time we're working on permanent magnets


150
00:32:41.828 --> 00:32:49.717
Jie Gao: for the machine, for example, the the permanent Dipole magnet has been used in haps light source. And we are study


151
00:32:50.478 --> 00:33:07.748
Jie Gao: the permanent quadruples which can change the field but permanent magnets underway. And also we are working on the heat recovery technology, especially low temperature heat, and also some


152
00:33:08.288 --> 00:33:13.068
Jie Gao: heat pump technology, etc. So that's all. Thank you very much.


153
00:33:15.338 --> 00:33:18.397
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. Shif, it's really nice.


154
00:33:18.398 --> 00:33:19.628
Jie Gao: It's really nice and clear.


155
00:33:19.628 --> 00:33:21.068
Sukanya Sinha: What that's going on.


156
00:33:21.462 --> 00:33:37.957
Sukanya Sinha: So right, that brings us to the end of the introductions. And that means it's time to get into the questions that everyone is waiting for. So the way it's going to happen is, we have some pre-prepared questions which we want to


157
00:33:37.968 --> 00:33:52.627
Sukanya Sinha: ask the panelists to get the discussion started. But the main thing is getting questions from the audience. So if you can click through the link that Hannah posted before, and if you're on your phone, you can scan this QR code.


158
00:33:52.628 --> 00:34:11.917
Sukanya Sinha: go to the Slider page and submit your questions. And even if you don't have a specific question. There are some people who already submitted questions, so you can upvote those, and the ones with the highest vote will get asked. Once we have kind of gone through the pre-prepared questions with the panelists.


159
00:34:11.918 --> 00:34:12.483
Sukanya Sinha: So


160
00:34:13.048 --> 00:34:36.318
Sukanya Sinha: We'll leave that on the screen for you to go through, and I would like to kick. Start the discussion with the questions we had pre-prepared. So this 1st question is for all the panelists, how do you foster a sustainability? Conscious culture among researchers, engineers and technical staff in your institution.


161
00:34:40.328 --> 00:34:44.198
Sukanya Sinha: Anyone can start. That's a specific order.


162
00:34:44.408 --> 00:35:04.647
Takayuki SAEKI: Yeah. So I was introduced for the first.st So I think I can. Answer very short shortly, I think. in principle. There is one director in one laboratory. So the director's policy is very important. I think.


163
00:35:04.948 --> 00:35:33.167
Takayuki SAEKI: Now we have a very big, very high pressure from the government and the people in country town the sustainability is very important for science, and also the living every day. So I think also the high energy physics. Scientist also should be very sensitive to that to achieve the scientific result.


164
00:35:33.528 --> 00:36:03.257
Takayuki SAEKI: and also, of course, the leadership is taken by the Director General of the laboratory. So Director General should be very responsible for that. And, for example, at Kk, for example, for my own experience, I was involved in the Ilc community. It's a future collide project.


165
00:36:03.298 --> 00:36:12.877
Takayuki SAEKI: So I started the green Ioc sustainable accelerator activity for more than 10 years.


166
00:36:13.208 --> 00:36:27.908
Takayuki SAEKI: So because it's a future project, so we are very sensitive to the energy consumption. And also it's a very huge and a huge project. So we are very sensitive to the energy consumption.


167
00:36:28.847 --> 00:36:43.418
Takayuki SAEKI: So we started the taco and the challenge and the in technology also. But also I already shown that we collaborated with the industry


168
00:36:43.418 --> 00:37:07.627
Takayuki SAEKI: and also people, local government, and so on. So it's very important. The project people tackle each project tackle. But I think Ioc is international project. So we we had a very broad collaboration with international laboratories


169
00:37:07.628 --> 00:37:22.607
Takayuki SAEKI: countries. So it was very successful in in Ioc community. But if I see see around in the Kk laboratory, so the the it's, for example.


170
00:37:22.928 --> 00:37:30.748
Takayuki SAEKI: one experiment is very national and also old


171
00:37:31.638 --> 00:37:45.608
Takayuki SAEKI: project, they are not sensitive. So in in such a case, I think direct top down is very important. The installing the policy of this sustainability into the project.


172
00:37:45.928 --> 00:37:49.077
Takayuki SAEKI: and also in the old project also.


173
00:37:49.198 --> 00:37:54.358
Takayuki SAEKI: and also, I think, the in Kk. We have.


174
00:37:54.528 --> 00:37:59.668
Takayuki SAEKI: Each project has each sustainable group.


175
00:38:00.368 --> 00:38:04.768
Takayuki SAEKI: and also Kk. Itself has sustainable division.


176
00:38:05.538 --> 00:38:12.948
Takayuki SAEKI: But we don't have close communication among these groups.


177
00:38:13.178 --> 00:38:36.848
Takayuki SAEKI: It's a kind of mess, because for example, I was invited to this talk. So I go to each each this kind of sustainability groups in each project and each division, and so on. But it took so long time to communicate. So I think in such a case the the leadership


178
00:38:37.098 --> 00:38:52.297
Takayuki SAEKI: or top down is very important. So I I go to the one of you know. a committee of the Director general ask to have one big meeting


179
00:38:52.448 --> 00:39:11.240
Takayuki SAEKI: in laboratory to to summarize the the what's activity in each project groups and the division, and so on at least once per year. I I hope 2 times per year is good for me. But I I ask them. But


180
00:39:12.728 --> 00:39:16.598
Takayuki SAEKI: they are very busy, and it's not realized yet.


181
00:39:16.838 --> 00:39:32.148
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think this kind of the the tackle challenge continued challenge is very important for the hip community. It's just from my side, my my opinion.


182
00:39:32.268 --> 00:39:33.137
Takayuki SAEKI: Thank you.


183
00:39:33.878 --> 00:39:41.068
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. Take Ki-san. Yes, I see marami is unmuted. So do you want to go ahead.


184
00:39:41.068 --> 00:40:04.138
Marumi Kado: Oh, yeah, I was always on muted, actually, go ahead. So yeah, I'd say, really, awareness and information is key. So this is, it's really so. A personal view in the sense that I see that we don't have sufficient information, not a sufficient detail information about about this. You know the the current situation in in at all level.


185
00:40:04.879 --> 00:40:16.678
Marumi Kado: All levels, personal institutional bigger lab levels. You know. Of course, this being, you know, the question of the environmental footprint being


186
00:40:16.918 --> 00:40:37.148
Marumi Kado: absolutely vital for some projects like legal projects we just heard of, then the largest labs do have more awareness and more of that information for the Institutes such as ours. It's it's not as obvious. And and certainly we need to have more of this information and awareness.


187
00:40:37.850 --> 00:41:01.437
Marumi Kado: Of of the issue. Another point, I think, which is very, very important, is, I think, it's fair to say that young scientists are driving force in bringing awareness and and typically executive bodies are not made of young scientists. So it is very important that the executive bodies listen to


188
00:41:01.538 --> 00:41:10.917
Marumi Kado: to to. To these aspects, which are absolutely vital for for the long term future and and bring on board ideas from them


189
00:41:11.488 --> 00:41:20.168
Marumi Kado: from beyond scientist. And and another point which is very important is to promote events such as such as this one, I think, is a fantastic event.


190
00:41:20.288 --> 00:41:42.477
Marumi Kado: I haven't been able to follow a lot of the talks, but I will listen to them afterwards. But it's really a fantastic event. It really gives a broad view of all the initiatives that are being done in the field. And this brings to the last point is that we really have to strive to be at the forefront


191
00:41:42.698 --> 00:42:02.258
Marumi Kado: on making our field as sustainable as possible. So this is you know, it's all about, I think for the moment, you know, bringing as much awareness. And this is through as much data as we can to to really understand what is our current environmental footprint.


192
00:42:04.118 --> 00:42:05.391
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you.


193
00:42:06.268 --> 00:42:07.827
Sukanya Sinha: Sonia is here.


194
00:42:08.128 --> 00:42:09.727
Sukanya Sinha: Sonia, go ahead. Yeah.


195
00:42:09.728 --> 00:42:11.237
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I go ahead?


196
00:42:13.388 --> 00:42:14.768
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So


197
00:42:15.914 --> 00:42:25.728
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I can maybe just summarize a bit that that cern. I think it. It goes mainly through, as previously said, communication.


198
00:42:26.158 --> 00:42:30.807
Sonja Kleiner CERN: but also training and at the end direct interactions.


199
00:42:31.528 --> 00:42:32.908
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So


200
00:42:33.498 --> 00:42:48.977
Sonja Kleiner CERN: maybe I can report a bit about the last years and the strong communication campaigns, actually, that we carried out towards the organization to increase the awareness and environment and sustainability. So we.


201
00:42:49.138 --> 00:42:52.268
Sonja Kleiner CERN: we, we have really put a lot of effort on this.


202
00:42:52.468 --> 00:43:10.777
Sonja Kleiner CERN: but despite of that you you can see that it's still not yet integrated in in all the minds of of managers and and key stakeholders, however, there are some real progress that we can now, I would say, measure.


203
00:43:10.938 --> 00:43:20.647
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and what was highlighted at the leadership and the importance of a director to be really committed to that. That's, I think, clearly the key.


204
00:43:20.928 --> 00:43:31.368
Sonja Kleiner CERN: This is what we have experienced at Cern, with the nomination of Fabiola Gianotti as director general, since I mean 2,007, 16,


205
00:43:31.698 --> 00:43:55.238
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and after 2 months of the beginning of her mandate she was stating that she believes Cern should become a role model for an environmentally aware research laboratory. So that was very strong and of course, very useful for us within the organization who were working on environmental issues. Since.


206
00:43:55.458 --> 00:43:56.278
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Yeah.


207
00:43:56.458 --> 00:44:07.518
Sonja Kleiner CERN: more than than a decay. So there was a real change within the organization. Thanks, indeed, to the to, I would say the leadership of of Fabiola.


208
00:44:07.998 --> 00:44:25.787
Sonja Kleiner CERN: What also really helped was the update of the European strategy. And here I, yeah, I fully share that. Young scientists are the driving forces behind, because now there is a dedicated chapter on Environment and social issues


209
00:44:26.128 --> 00:44:34.428
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and Cern directorate has aligned actually the current strategy on on the


210
00:44:34.808 --> 00:44:39.677
Sonja Kleiner CERN: let's say, the major actions that were highlighted through this European strategy.


211
00:44:40.438 --> 00:44:49.467
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So, thanks to this I would say, we had really elements coming from the directorate to.


212
00:44:49.688 --> 00:44:54.508
Sonja Kleiner CERN: to, let's say, increase the awareness internally.


213
00:44:54.788 --> 00:45:10.048
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I mean the fact that we were publishing our environment reports was also really a will of our Director General. So but we had already many information settled down. So we were quite well prepared, I would say at that time.


214
00:45:10.779 --> 00:45:25.968
Sonja Kleiner CERN: because this environment issue has always been handled actually by cern, I would say it was not exposed not to communicate it, but there was really already a long, lasting internal work that was going on


215
00:45:26.468 --> 00:45:37.208
Sonja Kleiner CERN: also mid 21 to mid 22, we organized a kind of communication campaign. It was called The Cerns Year of Environmental Awareness.


216
00:45:37.398 --> 00:45:55.337
Sonja Kleiner CERN: with regular articles in our internal newsletter that we call the Cern Bulletin. But it's a public document, either really article on various environmental domains or infographic information.


217
00:45:55.758 --> 00:46:15.298
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But we organized also a workshop on environmental topics in autumn 22 that was open to the whole Cern community. It was a 1 and a half day workshop. So where we also discussed, really, and shared the information, explained the status with respect to various environmental domains.


218
00:46:15.658 --> 00:46:22.658
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And more recently, we also organized a town hall. That was the yeah, took place in November last year.


219
00:46:23.058 --> 00:46:33.808
Sonja Kleiner CERN: where we informed actually the certain community about the high priority objectives for energy emissions and water.


220
00:46:34.088 --> 00:46:39.998
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and we informed them about the horizon. 2030. So.


221
00:46:40.458 --> 00:46:50.778
Sonja Kleiner CERN: yeah, that helps. I must say another thing that is now very interesting where we see how awareness is increasing is also


222
00:46:51.228 --> 00:46:56.098
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that these topics are now discussed in the Council sessions.


223
00:46:56.428 --> 00:47:20.827
Sonja Kleiner CERN: That was not the past, I would say the case in the past, but more and more also Member State representatives give their opinion, share their views and influence somehow. The decisions, then, that are taken internally at Cern. So that is also very, very interesting.


224
00:47:21.930 --> 00:47:32.048
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Briefly about the training. We also recently, within the Hsc unit developed a training for new supervisors at Cern.


225
00:47:32.168 --> 00:47:39.317
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and we include now fully the I would say, environmental protection and sustainability topic.


226
00:47:39.668 --> 00:47:52.338
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Here we have the advantage that safety at Cern includes actually environmental protection, since ever it's not only safety of people or of the public, but also environment.


227
00:47:52.648 --> 00:48:03.237
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But let's say that we speak a bit more on these topics and provide information is new for the for the supervisors, so that certainly will help in the coming years.


228
00:48:03.568 --> 00:48:10.278
Sonja Kleiner CERN: We have also information in the onboarding sessions. When you, when you join actually the the organization


229
00:48:10.868 --> 00:48:28.687
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and still briefly about the direct interactions. So we have a steering board for environmental protection where you have the department leaders actually that are present or group representatives.


230
00:48:29.078 --> 00:48:36.938
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And this also, of course, contributes to, I would say, spread awareness and information towards the organization.


231
00:48:37.388 --> 00:48:55.947
Sonja Kleiner CERN: because there are many topics that are discussed and many information is shared. And then, yeah, it's somehow the information is diffused within within the departments. But of course, all this takes takes a lot of time. But we see things are really evolving positively.


232
00:48:56.288 --> 00:49:04.088
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But I fully share that without a strong leadership a director that is, explicitly.


233
00:49:04.198 --> 00:49:09.958
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I would say, stating the commitment, it's more difficult. So we have this now since


234
00:49:10.078 --> 00:49:13.707
Sonja Kleiner CERN: 2016 at Cern, and you really can measure the progress.


235
00:49:15.408 --> 00:49:28.518
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. Yes, it's resonating that the leaders of the labs need to make an initiative to make things happen. Then we go to she if you'd like to add something.


236
00:49:28.518 --> 00:49:40.898
Jie Gao: Yes. So so, yeah, so this is a good question. Personally, I think the consciousness come from the needs.


237
00:49:41.118 --> 00:49:48.308
Jie Gao: the real needs, because that is to this consciousness to appear


238
00:49:49.598 --> 00:50:00.768
Jie Gao: naturally and with motivation, and become strong and strong. And and also this consciousness will be linked with action.


239
00:50:01.008 --> 00:50:07.968
Jie Gao: So so in terms of Ihop. I think this sustainability question.


240
00:50:09.071 --> 00:50:16.158
Jie Gao: It's a getting to be paid more and more


241
00:50:16.318 --> 00:50:24.987
Jie Gao: attention and consciousness. Firstly, by the direction of the lab, I mean through a Cpc. Because


242
00:50:25.868 --> 00:50:49.507
Jie Gao: the construction and the operation of this big machine as a Higgs factory, this is something real, and this is the real motivation. So we need to face this one. So this is a good example to make conscious of the whole lab and different branches and scientists and engineers.


243
00:50:49.538 --> 00:51:11.877
Jie Gao: So. So, so this is, I think, is very important. Without facing to the difficulty, I mean facing the problems. And this consciousness can be established, but maybe gradually so so through something concrete, so that from the direction of the lab, and also emphasizing


244
00:51:12.548 --> 00:51:22.228
Jie Gao: to start from very beginning to to reach the goal is to make optimum design of your machine.


245
00:51:22.678 --> 00:51:34.307
Jie Gao: because different scientific goal with different design, you will have a different ratio of scientific output divided by your


246
00:51:34.758 --> 00:51:39.497
Jie Gao: cost or your Co 2 equivalent carbon emission.


247
00:51:39.698 --> 00:51:58.618
Jie Gao: So you need to make a good design, first, st secondly, to identify the key technology which contribute most to the goal, and then to make the adequate and to get enough


248
00:51:59.178 --> 00:52:21.568
Jie Gao: necessary fundings for this technical research, such as the Lystroms high efficiency, which is very much supported by the directors of Ihub, especially Ifan Wang, former director, and also the actor director of Juntao also. So this I agree with the previous


249
00:52:22.268 --> 00:52:30.178
Jie Gao: panelists that the direction of the lab is really very important in this in the


250
00:52:30.968 --> 00:52:38.237
Jie Gao: and the sustainability of high energy physics in general, and a project specific.


251
00:52:38.538 --> 00:52:45.868
Jie Gao: like associated with with a lab. So so this is what I would like to say.


252
00:52:46.608 --> 00:52:47.418
Jie Gao: Thank you.


253
00:52:49.158 --> 00:53:16.297
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. I guess the concerns are resonated amongst all the different labs which leads me to the second question, what are the current challenges in terms of funding that you're facing in implementing sustainable initiatives in your facilities. And if money was no object, is there one bold change that you would like to implement your lab.


254
00:53:17.838 --> 00:53:21.558
Takayuki SAEKI: Hmm, okay, so that's great. Very good question.


255
00:53:22.058 --> 00:53:36.278
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think we are scientists. So I think in principle, we should think about for for some some you you need to propose


256
00:53:36.478 --> 00:53:57.317
Takayuki SAEKI: any sub subject or project to the government to get the funding. So I think, if in the process of the application, you should always should be a very awareness or sensitive to the energy consumption and the sustainability.


257
00:53:57.788 --> 00:54:17.618
Takayuki SAEKI: And I think in recent trend. We are very conscious and also very sensitive to this kind of a subject. So always we are thinking about energy consumption and the new application or new project.


258
00:54:17.928 --> 00:54:23.021
Takayuki SAEKI: That is a very nice tendency. And but still


259
00:54:24.258 --> 00:54:31.097
Takayuki SAEKI: the pressure to achieve scientific you know, results is very heavy.


260
00:54:31.418 --> 00:54:38.107
Takayuki SAEKI: So sometimes we only think about the you know scientific results.


261
00:54:38.368 --> 00:54:43.468
Takayuki SAEKI: and we don't think about the energy consumption or sustainability.


262
00:54:43.698 --> 00:54:58.367
Takayuki SAEKI: But step by step, we are changing in mind to to you know, implement such a sustainability in the our project or application new new subject.


263
00:54:58.818 --> 00:55:07.447
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think if I remember, 10 years or 20 years ago. Nobody think about their sustainability in your application


264
00:55:07.788 --> 00:55:13.578
Takayuki SAEKI: or the you're you're you're presenting the new project.


265
00:55:13.878 --> 00:55:21.768
Takayuki SAEKI: But if I go into the go to some any any workshop or conference?


266
00:55:21.948 --> 00:55:47.097
Takayuki SAEKI: Recently, everybody talk about sustainability in some parts. So that's I think, a very nice trend, I think, and we should continue this challenge. It's a it's a long, long term challenge. But we we should do this kind of a challenge, and also the the from government side.


267
00:55:47.208 --> 00:55:49.708
Takayuki SAEKI: I think they should accept


268
00:55:50.902 --> 00:56:03.147
Takayuki SAEKI: such a project that contains a more sustainable or conscious environmental consciousness.


269
00:56:04.067 --> 00:56:06.827
Takayuki SAEKI: Is in mind project.


270
00:56:07.028 --> 00:56:29.228
Takayuki SAEKI: That's very important, because we are very aware about the environment and energy consumption. But the government rejects such kind of a concept we cannot get funding. So I think we'd like to say, I would like to say that the government should also very conscious to the environment.


271
00:56:30.328 --> 00:56:37.328
Takayuki SAEKI: And the second question, I think, what's about change in laboratory?


272
00:56:37.588 --> 00:56:45.177
Takayuki SAEKI: So I'm a scientist. So I think I would like to use


273
00:56:45.558 --> 00:56:53.347
Takayuki SAEKI: much time, more longer time to to think about the sustainability in science.


274
00:56:53.628 --> 00:56:57.467
Takayuki SAEKI: For example, I'm I'm working on the superconductivity.


275
00:56:57.908 --> 00:57:03.048
Takayuki SAEKI: but if I think more I use I spend more time


276
00:57:03.248 --> 00:57:11.648
Takayuki SAEKI: to sustainability. I think I can have some kind of an image of the new project or new


277
00:57:12.850 --> 00:57:14.575
Takayuki SAEKI: application. But


278
00:57:15.798 --> 00:57:43.518
Takayuki SAEKI: they normally people are very busy, and you are a hundred percent occupied with the current project, and so on. So I think if I have time, then I would have a very new idea about sustainability. And we can implement it in the laboratories and your groups. And finally, in the in the, you know, community head community.


279
00:57:44.408 --> 00:57:50.638
Takayuki SAEKI: Okay, that's a kind of a dream. But my answer.


280
00:57:50.778 --> 00:57:51.448
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you.


281
00:57:51.448 --> 00:57:54.508
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. Tucker. Kissan. Yes.


282
00:57:55.238 --> 00:57:58.148
Sukanya Sinha: Next who wants to go ahead? Yeah. Go ahead, Mari.


283
00:57:59.009 --> 00:58:02.456
Marumi Kado: So for funding is,


284
00:58:03.448 --> 00:58:20.087
Marumi Kado: incredibly complicated question in our fields. I mean funding for fundamental resources in a dire situation almost everywhere. Right? So. Clearly, clearly it would be ideal if funding agencies were able to.


285
00:58:20.478 --> 00:58:27.567
Marumi Kado: you know, not, not push the question on on us without necessarily adding fun funding for this.


286
00:58:27.848 --> 00:58:31.928
Marumi Kado: But of course, in in the current situation, this is a huge challenge.


287
00:58:32.554 --> 00:58:42.077
Marumi Kado: For for to give you an idea for an institute like us. The the you know, the driving factor is really electricity in Germany in particular.


288
00:58:42.178 --> 00:58:52.898
Marumi Kado: Okay. So in terms of electricity is essentially even 5 times more from the numbers for the overall. Max Bank Society is 5 times more than air travel.


289
00:58:53.468 --> 00:59:04.066
Marumi Kado: so if I if I had to make a bold and and of course, if you remove the funding question, if I had, if I had all the money I I wanted.


290
00:59:04.778 --> 00:59:27.178
Marumi Kado: then clearly, I mean the the immediate thing you have to do is to go to to sustainable energy sources in full right and and so, and and then, you know, for all, for the for for all the operations of the Institutes and the labs, but also the the fleets of cars, and so on, and so forth. So this this would be, I think the bold thing to do, but


291
00:59:27.308 --> 00:59:33.208
Marumi Kado: with all the funds, if I could have any funds, then, of course, this will be the thing.


292
00:59:34.758 --> 00:59:39.278
Sukanya Sinha: Yes, renewable energy sources are not cheap. That's always a problem.


293
00:59:40.358 --> 00:59:40.968
Sukanya Sinha: Sonia.


294
00:59:41.948 --> 00:59:49.737
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Yeah. So I was. I was rather reflecting on internally, actually, what are the funding challenges?


295
00:59:50.717 --> 00:59:59.378
Sonja Kleiner CERN: For environmental or sustainability initiatives. So within within cern and maybe just


296
00:59:59.628 --> 01:00:06.458
Sonja Kleiner CERN: for your understanding. I mean, we have this environmental Protection steering board that actually identifies


297
01:00:06.958 --> 01:00:12.218
Sonja Kleiner CERN: with departments. What are the priority actions that should be taken.


298
01:00:12.388 --> 01:00:19.197
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and asks actually the budget to the directorate for a period of 5 years.


299
01:00:19.548 --> 01:00:23.757
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and this exercise is repeated every year.


300
01:00:24.658 --> 01:00:28.688
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and the requests they must be done by the end of February.


301
01:00:28.908 --> 01:00:35.317
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Then there is like a pre-approval by the directorate in early spring, and this is then finally


302
01:00:36.108 --> 01:00:43.507
Sonja Kleiner CERN: pushed to Council sessions that are taking place. Usually decision is taking place in June.


303
01:00:46.088 --> 01:00:53.828
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So this mechanisms actually work now quite good, and departments are really


304
01:00:54.068 --> 01:01:00.178
Sonja Kleiner CERN: playing the game, if I may say, in collaboration with the Cern Environmental Protection Steering Board.


305
01:01:00.338 --> 01:01:05.437
Sonja Kleiner CERN: then departments might also themselves propose some strong actions


306
01:01:06.306 --> 01:01:09.597
Sonja Kleiner CERN: linked to environment or sustainability.


307
01:01:09.938 --> 01:01:17.477
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And maybe I just highlight one example that we experienced early 21.


308
01:01:18.018 --> 01:01:32.527
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So there was the site and engineering department that was asking for the consolidation of the 2 heating plants we have for providing heat to the main campuses. There is one in Switzerland, one in France.


309
01:01:32.868 --> 01:01:36.597
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Maybe you know the names Mehran and prevassin.


310
01:01:37.618 --> 01:01:53.488
Sonja Kleiner CERN: so to, I would say, integrate either new heating plant. But that works with heat pumps with energy recovery from a new data center that was also foreseen on the site in Previs


311
01:01:54.098 --> 01:02:05.637
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and on the Mera side. Yeah, to also use recover waste heat from cooling towers that would supply the heat pump. And then, I would say, produce.


312
01:02:05.848 --> 01:02:13.318
Sonja Kleiner CERN: provide the energy to the overheated network we have but in 21


313
01:02:13.548 --> 01:02:20.307
Sonja Kleiner CERN: this request was actually refused by Cern Directorate. However.


314
01:02:20.698 --> 01:02:28.598
Sonja Kleiner CERN: they highlighted that it is a concern, and they will reflect on it, and they see this will be important.


315
01:02:29.398 --> 01:02:34.048
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And the second attempt, then in 22 was accepted.


316
01:02:34.388 --> 01:02:41.788
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And this was just at the beginning of the energy crisis, because the current heating plants are still working with gas.


317
01:02:42.328 --> 01:02:43.508
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And


318
01:02:44.168 --> 01:02:56.958
Sonja Kleiner CERN: yeah, the beginning of the European, I would say, mainly European energy crisis probably strongly influenced that decision. So somehow we also see internally


319
01:02:57.208 --> 01:03:05.157
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that it depends also on geopolitics and local concerns, of course, of the host States authorities


320
01:03:06.608 --> 01:03:10.338
Sonja Kleiner CERN: now reflecting about a bold change.


321
01:03:11.198 --> 01:03:19.637
Sonja Kleiner CERN: If I would have a magic wand in the hands, I would change the current Rpcs within Atlas and Cms.


322
01:03:20.398 --> 01:03:26.617
Sonja Kleiner CERN: or enabling a complete change of grass mixture, banning synthetic compounds.


323
01:03:27.038 --> 01:03:32.408
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But, joke apart, I would also


324
01:03:32.648 --> 01:03:38.287
Sonja Kleiner CERN: really take care of changing the layout of the cern compasses.


325
01:03:39.175 --> 01:03:48.417
Sonja Kleiner CERN: You may know them. There is too much concrete, too many private cars, many old buildings.


326
01:03:49.368 --> 01:03:58.818
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and it's clearly progressing, but very slowly, and I would say at Cern


327
01:03:59.048 --> 01:04:04.387
Sonja Kleiner CERN: we understand that priority is given to the accelerator infrastructure.


328
01:04:05.218 --> 01:04:10.497
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But I think for the campus we should have actually the same ambitions.


329
01:04:11.078 --> 01:04:14.707
Sonja Kleiner CERN: That's the 1st impression you get when you come to Cern.


330
01:04:15.438 --> 01:04:20.138
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And I would say, even the youngest scientists there are.


331
01:04:20.408 --> 01:04:23.187
Sonja Kleiner CERN: They are very sensitive to this.


332
01:04:23.598 --> 01:04:27.393
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So it's also providing them. I would say,


333
01:04:28.718 --> 01:04:34.828
Sonja Kleiner CERN: let's say, friendly and environmentally aware campus


334
01:04:35.048 --> 01:04:39.667
Sonja Kleiner CERN: where they can reflect on their signs.


335
01:04:40.188 --> 01:04:47.058
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And it's also the very visible part for our host States authorities.


336
01:04:47.998 --> 01:04:53.588
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So clearly, it looks today like the the investments


337
01:04:54.228 --> 01:05:03.728
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that would be dedicated to the site. Tertiary infrastructure, or standard infrastructure is a bit in competition with signs.


338
01:05:04.188 --> 01:05:14.388
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and I believe there should be somehow a better equilibrium between Cern's scientific mission, and how actually, this mission is carried out.


339
01:05:15.378 --> 01:05:18.698
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So that's a bit my thought.


340
01:05:19.878 --> 01:05:22.848
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you, Sonia. She would you like to add.


341
01:05:22.848 --> 01:05:36.978
Jie Gao: Yeah, so so still, I think this question is very meaningful, because this link that was found, and which is a very limiting factors to all of us.


342
01:05:37.178 --> 01:05:43.617
Jie Gao: however, I think the willingness and the determination is very important.


343
01:05:44.598 --> 01:05:48.657
Jie Gao: So that is the 1st saying, and


344
01:05:49.138 --> 01:06:10.298
Jie Gao: we really need to fix the target, and to find ways to reach that, including found because found, is in general, is very important if found stopped, is not a continuous curve. Your activity was stopped. So you are not to overcome a difficulty technical difficulty to reach your goal.


345
01:06:10.458 --> 01:06:15.477
Jie Gao: Anyway, we will reach the goal through at least some technologies to reach the goal.


346
01:06:15.598 --> 01:06:18.658
Jie Gao: So, to overcome all these difficulties.


347
01:06:18.768 --> 01:06:22.118
Jie Gao: if you don't have enough motivation.


348
01:06:22.348 --> 01:06:37.808
Jie Gao: if you don't have enough motivation to find a found, or if you don't have enough motivation to continue to find found facing to the failures of the the way to reach your goal, and it will be stopped.


349
01:06:38.368 --> 01:07:03.047
Jie Gao: So I think the all experiences is that, first, st we have a clear goal, and secondly, we have some found to do that. For example, high efficiency. And imagine this found is from the so-called general channels, and then, maybe, after one cholesterol, there's some failure


350
01:07:03.498 --> 01:07:06.418
Jie Gao: you run out of the founder, and it stopped.


351
01:07:06.908 --> 01:07:25.737
Jie Gao: However, fortunately we we have found from director and the specific found, and then we can continue to overcome the difficulties and failures during the and finally, a success to this, so that is, first, st the thing I would like to underline that


352
01:07:25.868 --> 01:07:30.488
Jie Gao: a found is very important and continuous found is very important also.


353
01:07:30.658 --> 01:07:37.637
Jie Gao: Secondly, I would say that the fund from our Institute own pockets is only one thing


354
01:07:38.458 --> 01:07:44.537
Jie Gao: to have found from industry to collaborate with industry, with the common goal


355
01:07:44.678 --> 01:07:56.047
Jie Gao: to that is another important thing. So so I would like to emphasize that the success or the experiences


356
01:07:56.328 --> 01:08:00.798
Jie Gao: is that the industry involvement?


357
01:08:00.918 --> 01:08:24.517
Jie Gao: It's very important to have a success of overcome the difficulties of technology and to reach the goals, together with industry, with the common goal of efficient components and sustainability for the scientific development in general. So this is what I want to share.


358
01:08:25.498 --> 01:08:45.917
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. So that brings us to the end of the 1st part of the session with the pre-prepared questions, and we have a lot of questions on Slido. So in the interest of time, and to go through most of the questions which got a lot of Upvotes, I will read through them, and I would request


359
01:08:46.238 --> 01:09:09.418
Sukanya Sinha: any of the Panelists to give a short response to them, so that we can target all the questions. So the 1st question that was posted by the audience on Slide O. Was, the new colliders have carbon budgets in their technical design reports. So is there a point at which you think that we should say this physics is not worth the carbon it will produce.


360
01:09:10.208 --> 01:09:11.858
Sukanya Sinha: Say, if someone wants to go ahead.


361
01:09:12.728 --> 01:09:34.217
Jie Gao: So maybe I want to echo to this question. I think this question is quite public and very important. So, firstly, the scientific goal specifically for the Higgs factory, for the future of high energy physics in specific, I think the physics extremely important.


362
01:09:35.318 --> 01:09:55.438
Jie Gao: So this is, firstly, we're talking about the goal of scientific goal for the human being to understand the universe from its beginning to the evolution. And this is so fundamental and important, and for the human being.


363
01:09:55.558 --> 01:10:05.347
Jie Gao: So. Firstly, this is a very, very important scientific goal, deserve the human being to spend


364
01:10:05.778 --> 01:10:10.427
Jie Gao: not only the the, the money, but also energy


365
01:10:10.588 --> 01:10:14.757
Jie Gao: and the human resources to to work collectively


366
01:10:15.208 --> 01:10:19.068
Jie Gao: and towards reaching this goal. This is what I want to say.


367
01:10:19.268 --> 01:10:25.508
Jie Gao: But secondly, to reach this goal, you need to waste. You need to consume


368
01:10:25.728 --> 01:10:40.718
Jie Gao: energy. Anyway. This is a natural law. You want to collide. You want to have to go to the detail, to the deep, into the matter and to deep into the vacuum. And you need to energy to make it happen.


369
01:10:40.928 --> 01:10:53.237
Jie Gao: So the the most important thing is to we make this coefficient the efficiency to increase the efficiency between


370
01:10:53.428 --> 01:10:57.288
Jie Gao: the scientific goal and the Co. 2 emission.


371
01:10:57.528 --> 01:11:11.547
Jie Gao: So, according to our calculation, imagine, I just make example. And this we published a paper, and which in my transparency yesterday, and you can find the reference. And if we use nuclear power


372
01:11:11.968 --> 01:11:16.717
Jie Gao: just, for example, you can use others, but less efficient. But imagine


373
01:11:16.908 --> 01:11:29.138
Jie Gao: and to produce, including including the construction, the tunneling, and the operation, and the totally running, and in average, if you count your several millions of Hicks.


374
01:11:29.718 --> 01:11:34.148
Jie Gao: and for Per Higgs we need to


375
01:11:35.148 --> 01:11:47.187
Jie Gao: to produce this heats, because, as I said to this, Higgs number is extremely important to make some study. And Per Higgs, we need emission of Co 2 about one


376
01:11:47.238 --> 01:11:48.198
Jie Gao: tons.


377
01:11:48.248 --> 01:12:07.177
Jie Gao: Okay, so so anyway, this is a rough number. But it depends on many. If you change some condition, this can vary, but this gives you an order of magnitude to remember. This is a 1 Higgs, or one turns. So this is connected with Co 2 emission and the scientific output.


378
01:12:07.228 --> 01:12:24.987
Jie Gao: So we are aware of this relation. But the thing is the scientific goal. We need to do that at the same time. So we know how much, and we will consume the power and also deliver the Co. 2. So


379
01:12:25.088 --> 01:12:31.548
Jie Gao: for us the key thing is to to work very hard to reduce this value


380
01:12:32.068 --> 01:12:49.768
Jie Gao: again and again. So even 1% efficiency of clystrom efficiency is important. It's a matter. So that's the reason why we continue to to push the technology development in this direction, of course, including others.


381
01:12:50.298 --> 01:12:52.238
Jie Gao: So this is what I want to say.


382
01:12:52.618 --> 01:12:58.487
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. Anyone wants to add anything on top of what's already been said. Okay.


383
01:12:58.950 --> 01:13:03.277
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think. This kind of a question


384
01:13:04.229 --> 01:13:08.377
Takayuki SAEKI: everybody always repeating in your mind.


385
01:13:09.018 --> 01:13:09.728
Takayuki SAEKI: But


386
01:13:11.548 --> 01:13:18.658
Takayuki SAEKI: If you were born in in in your human body. And you're a human being


387
01:13:19.719 --> 01:13:23.448
Takayuki SAEKI: always use. You'd like to think


388
01:13:23.578 --> 01:13:26.968
Takayuki SAEKI: new thing and progress, and so on.


389
01:13:27.538 --> 01:13:32.125
Takayuki SAEKI: And I think this kind of problem is not solved forever. But


390
01:13:32.748 --> 01:13:49.788
Takayuki SAEKI: if I would say some opinion from my side I think in hip community we did a lots of experiments. And, for example, this is just one example. But for think about led


391
01:13:50.789 --> 01:14:11.117
Takayuki SAEKI: you always, you know, need light in the night in night. But now you are using led. And this kind of a technology, new technology is coming from the you know. Science. And the the old scientist who who who


392
01:14:11.498 --> 01:14:16.698
Takayuki SAEKI: try to get the new technology and the new new good technology.


393
01:14:17.058 --> 01:14:18.738
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think, Hicks.


394
01:14:19.284 --> 01:14:25.838
Takayuki SAEKI: Factory. This is a huge amount of you know. Carbon will be emitted.


395
01:14:26.408 --> 01:14:32.728
Takayuki SAEKI: But you should think about that. Led. Never come


396
01:14:32.958 --> 01:14:39.557
Takayuki SAEKI: to our community if we didn't get the new, you know, technology and new science.


397
01:14:39.988 --> 01:14:48.751
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think I cannot answer very quickly about this kind of subject or questions. But


398
01:14:49.418 --> 01:14:58.888
Takayuki SAEKI: I believe that we we get the new technology. Then we have progressed


399
01:14:59.498 --> 01:15:04.618
Takayuki SAEKI: to to oh, you know much higher efficiency


400
01:15:04.808 --> 01:15:07.498
Takayuki SAEKI: of the usage of the energy.


401
01:15:07.688 --> 01:15:29.887
Takayuki SAEKI: So now we are using led. And a hundred years ago we are using, you know, the ball light. It's 10 times more energy consumption compared with led. But we continued challenge to the science. Then we get the higher efficiency.


402
01:15:29.888 --> 01:15:39.798
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think the top of the science, we will consume more energy.


403
01:15:40.098 --> 01:15:47.948
Takayuki SAEKI: But finally, I believe that this comes to the more efficiency in the human being.


404
01:15:48.288 --> 01:15:54.207
Takayuki SAEKI: The total world energy, consumption should be reduced.


405
01:15:54.758 --> 01:15:56.357
Takayuki SAEKI: That is my opinion.


406
01:15:57.128 --> 01:16:15.557
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. And since we're already talking about technology, maybe we can move on to the next question, which was in Slideo, which is, are there any direct technological developments in Hep that would contribute towards greener technology? And I'll give Murmi and Sonia a chance to respond on this one.


407
01:16:19.918 --> 01:16:24.577
Sukanya Sinha: So I guess, Jeremy, if you have any ideas on it, you can go ahead.


408
01:16:26.118 --> 01:16:36.027
Marumi Kado: Yeah, I mean. So of course I you know I I would not add that much to this, because you you've seen throughout the conference technologies to improve. You know the the


409
01:16:36.817 --> 01:16:51.348
Marumi Kado: the environment and impact for Hep in general. But the question, I suppose, is more, you know, a broader question. Can technologies develop or or stem from from what is done in Hep to the general society, and and brings.


410
01:16:51.727 --> 01:16:55.518
Marumi Kado: you know, have a greater impact.


411
01:16:57.737 --> 01:17:15.528
Marumi Kado: so no, I would leave. I mean, so, yeah, maybe I can say so. Yeah, I can say a few things, maybe just just to remind what Cern has been doing so. I thought you were actually asking Sonia, because so you know, for example, the programming development of superconductors. So this is why I would leave this question to others. But


412
01:17:15.528 --> 01:17:31.408
Marumi Kado: but clearly development of superconductors is something that is going to help and losing less energy. So this is this, I think that our labs have had a large impact. But I'm happy to leave other answer to this one.


413
01:17:34.857 --> 01:17:41.951
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Yeah, actually, maybe you, you remember about this 3rd line of action that


414
01:17:42.737 --> 01:17:49.407
Sonja Kleiner CERN: let's say, Cern should develop environmental technologies that may help society.


415
01:17:50.117 --> 01:18:07.827
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But you have to consider that actually, that's not the primary mission of the science we do at Cern. So typically, it's when we develop technologies for the accelerator infrastructure or the collaborations are developing technologies within the experiments.


416
01:18:08.647 --> 01:18:11.947
Sonja Kleiner CERN: It may result, indeed, in some


417
01:18:12.693 --> 01:18:18.397
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I would say also, environmental benefits So


418
01:18:18.627 --> 01:18:30.407
Sonja Kleiner CERN: maybe in the past this potential was not explored sufficiently, I would say now, it's clearly also a knowledge transfer domain


419
01:18:30.547 --> 01:18:46.027
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that was highlighted within cern. So since 21. It's really recognized, and indeed there are many, many, I would say little projects that are ongoing. In addition to, I would say more big ones


420
01:18:46.177 --> 01:19:05.867
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that are indeed, linked to the superconducting. Maybe energy transmission lines there are. There is a collaboration with Airbus ongoing. There is also collaboration with Abb on, let's say, motor operation.


421
01:19:06.647 --> 01:19:20.497
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So that is really, I would say, aimed at saving energy within society and within technologies that are used of the society. But again, I want to underline. It's not Cern's primary mission.


422
01:19:21.067 --> 01:19:22.327
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So


423
01:19:23.856 --> 01:19:33.417
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that is for me, I mean, I'm I'm not scientist as you are. I'm not a physicist. So for me. That's a bit the


424
01:19:33.597 --> 01:19:37.027
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I would say the the delicate side effect.


425
01:19:37.447 --> 01:19:42.257
Sonja Kleiner CERN: because, of course, we are aware that technologies may


426
01:19:42.427 --> 01:19:47.377
Sonja Kleiner CERN: help a lot and bring a lot to society.


427
01:19:47.847 --> 01:19:59.237
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But I think where we have to be more careful is also how this technology might be used in the future. And if there might be stronger, actually, environmental side effects.


428
01:19:59.527 --> 01:20:12.857
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So I think there, we also have a strong responsibility now, and this has to be well studied before I would say, the 1st benefit is somehow openly shared.


429
01:20:13.317 --> 01:20:17.636
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So that is maybe something to investigate. Also, of course.


430
01:20:18.737 --> 01:20:28.107
Sonja Kleiner CERN: first, st it's not the primary mission, but of course, it's a new field of exploration, and it is already integrated and will be for the future.


431
01:20:30.157 --> 01:20:32.137
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But we have to be careful


432
01:20:32.397 --> 01:20:38.137
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that actually, then these technologies also don't bring other side effects.


433
01:20:39.608 --> 01:20:40.528
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you.


434
01:20:41.183 --> 01:21:00.358
Sukanya Sinha: Right? So that then let's move on to the next question from Hannah, which is, it? Sounds like the sustainability efforts and groups within hip are quite unorganized, or at the early stages of organization. What can be done to improve this.


435
01:21:07.208 --> 01:21:10.947
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So maybe sorry. Maybe I misunderstood. Can you repeat.


436
01:21:11.458 --> 01:21:39.677
Sukanya Sinha: So it looks like the efforts of sustainability within. Hep is quite unorganized right now, or either in the early stages of formation. So how could this be improved? Are there any ideas on the horizon to do this like having more interaction between the labs to have a common goal towards sustainability rather than having scattered groups in different labs.


437
01:21:44.098 --> 01:21:44.618
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I mean he.


438
01:21:44.618 --> 01:21:45.647
Jie Gao: I mean here.


439
01:21:47.068 --> 01:21:48.876
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Can I jump in? Yeah.


440
01:21:49.238 --> 01:21:49.758
Sukanya Sinha: Yeah.


441
01:21:51.478 --> 01:22:03.918
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I think that's a bit of a challenge for us, indeed, and we also consider that it has to be better investigated for the period 26 to 30.


442
01:22:04.858 --> 01:22:21.258
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Because I think we have quite a good overview now at within Cern, who are the the key stakeholders within the organization, I mean really the among the employed members of the personnel. But, indeed, reaching the collaborations


443
01:22:21.428 --> 01:22:27.368
Sonja Kleiner CERN: is much more difficult also for us from an internal point of view, so


444
01:22:28.248 --> 01:22:33.398
Sonja Kleiner CERN: probably we would need more exchanges with the Hep community in general.


445
01:22:34.048 --> 01:22:46.337
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And it's true that this is not organized on a on a regular basis. I mean, we have occasions like your super workshop, and I'm I'm so happy to see.


446
01:22:46.508 --> 01:22:51.357
Sonja Kleiner CERN: since it's initiated how much importance this takes now.


447
01:22:51.468 --> 01:23:10.337
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But indeed, I think more exchanges would be appreciated also to share the views of I mean, we are somehow monitoring the impact, the current impact. So we see actually what is going on? What are the difficulties and the challenges?


448
01:23:10.628 --> 01:23:19.677
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And from from the outside the collaborations they might see. Okay, our campus is maybe not very friendly.


449
01:23:20.408 --> 01:23:44.358
Sonja Kleiner CERN: But actually, it's not the the main footprint we have within the campus. It's rather linked to the experiments, and the experiments are are actually handled by the collaborations. So it's also difficult for us from Cern internally to reach the collaborations. So I mean, maybe one could consider about more regular forums over the year, for for sure.


450
01:23:46.288 --> 01:23:50.357
Sukanya Sinha: Perfect. I see Marami's hand, maybe a short addition to.


451
01:23:50.358 --> 01:24:00.468
Marumi Kado: I just want to say so. I completely agree with Sonia. I think it would be great, and it would be interesting also to see what the governing bodies of of help in general. Likefa Icfa


452
01:24:01.302 --> 01:24:07.777
Marumi Kado: you know, have have organized, and maybe, you know, try try to get these bodies to.


453
01:24:07.898 --> 01:24:13.308
Marumi Kado: to to organize events like this one, which are fantastic disrespect.


454
01:24:15.058 --> 01:24:28.261
Sukanya Sinha: Perfect. Right? So then we have a lot more questions. And we're just like 5 min or so till then, so I'll quickly jump through to the next one. So the question is,


455
01:24:29.138 --> 01:24:53.788
Sukanya Sinha: what kind of initiatives would you implement to ensure your labs and the physics they do are ensured against a future in which energy becomes scarce and expensive. And I know this is a very difficult question to answer on this part. So just a brief response from one person would be enough. I guess.


456
01:24:55.768 --> 01:25:02.367
Takayuki SAEKI: Oh, the question, would you? Would you print the question in the.


457
01:25:02.638 --> 01:25:04.048
Sukanya Sinha: Yes, so.


458
01:25:04.788 --> 01:25:08.157
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think it's being tested in the yeah.


459
01:25:08.158 --> 01:25:15.207
Takayuki SAEKI: Think the energy cost is higher and higher. And what do we should do?


460
01:25:15.378 --> 01:25:17.338
Takayuki SAEKI: And the headboard? That's question.


461
01:25:17.498 --> 01:25:18.008
Sukanya Sinha: Yeah.


462
01:25:18.548 --> 01:25:28.563
Takayuki SAEKI: Okay, yes, I'm repeating many times. In my opinion, we are scientists. So


463
01:25:29.698 --> 01:25:55.667
Takayuki SAEKI: the energy is coming through the technology. For example, the the atomic energy, and so on, and the old time we are burning the coal or oats, and so on. But now we are, we have a very modern technology to get energy.


464
01:25:55.938 --> 01:26:06.678
Takayuki SAEKI: So I think what we are doing in the hip, we are using lots of energy. But if we continue this kind of a


465
01:26:07.675 --> 01:26:16.330
Takayuki SAEKI: you know, challenge and improvement in the hip community to get the new technology. Then


466
01:26:17.458 --> 01:26:25.558
Takayuki SAEKI: we can get more a higher stage, higher stage to to use energy in a more efficient way.


467
01:26:25.948 --> 01:26:34.907
Takayuki SAEKI: That's, I'm thinking, always as a scientist. So I think it's a very good chance for us


468
01:26:35.068 --> 01:26:45.587
Takayuki SAEKI: to appeal our, you know, existence to the people in the world that help community can contribute to this kind of a crisis.


469
01:26:46.198 --> 01:26:58.267
Takayuki SAEKI: We should think about the energy itself, and how to get more efficient energy science, and so on. That's my opinion.


470
01:26:59.748 --> 01:27:26.837
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. So then we have another question from the audience, which is, how do we go from being just aware or informed to actually ask the really hard questions and change the way we do our science, because there's a lot of discussion in different places. But actually making an impact is the more difficult step, so are there any ideas from any of the panelists.


471
01:27:36.978 --> 01:27:41.996
Sukanya Sinha: It is, again a very tricky question to think of


472
01:27:42.498 --> 01:27:48.777
Sonja Kleiner CERN: May. Maybe I can. I can just mention something which might be a bit provocative.


473
01:27:51.738 --> 01:27:59.388
Sonja Kleiner CERN: I think it goes also through moderating slightly the appetite for physics.


474
01:28:03.218 --> 01:28:06.697
Sonja Kleiner CERN: When when we have the Council sessions.


475
01:28:07.558 --> 01:28:16.028
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Madison, we we especially by the end of the year, we usually hear many congratulations.


476
01:28:17.048 --> 01:28:21.803
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and about the brilliant results that


477
01:28:22.808 --> 01:28:30.657
Sonja Kleiner CERN: that cern is achieving through the accelerator complex and the experiment and the collaborations through all the


478
01:28:30.808 --> 01:28:34.938
Sonja Kleiner CERN: yeah, large experiments that and smaller experiments that are running.


479
01:28:36.288 --> 01:28:48.057
Sonja Kleiner CERN: And, of course, during the energy crisis we had this moral obligation to also shorten the period of of runs.


480
01:28:48.818 --> 01:28:55.528
Sonja Kleiner CERN: and despite of that actually, physics results, I think, were very, very positive.


481
01:28:56.298 --> 01:29:00.297
Sonja Kleiner CERN: So sometimes I'm questioning myself. Actually.


482
01:29:00.998 --> 01:29:09.748
Sonja Kleiner CERN: if here there should also be some efforts, it's it's a different way of of thinking and maybe limiting


483
01:29:09.998 --> 01:29:18.087
Sonja Kleiner CERN: some. I don't know statistical outputs, or, as I said, a bit moderating, the physics, appetite.


484
01:29:20.648 --> 01:29:23.788
Sukanya Sinha: Perfect. Mari! Would you like to add something.


485
01:29:23.788 --> 01:29:42.077
Marumi Kado: Just so this is important, because I I think the so it has to be. I do think that we we do face hard questions, and I think Cern, as Sonya was saying, has done it has done it. When when we I mean, we really sacrificed running of the Dhc. At the time or the peak of the energy beans.


486
01:29:42.318 --> 01:29:50.508
Marumi Kado: Okay? And then and then also, you can see in the in the new design for the fcchh.


487
01:29:51.021 --> 01:30:01.768
Marumi Kado: The the. You know the the sweet spot for the energy is now 85 TV with 14 Tesla magnets. And this is a sweet spot, because


488
01:30:02.288 --> 01:30:12.078
Marumi Kado: because it's it's the best for the energy consumption. So I mean, this is now an integral part of of our physics program. So I think we do address hard questions.


489
01:30:15.708 --> 01:30:20.257
Marumi Kado: We can, of course, do more and better, but we already do a hard start.


490
01:30:20.678 --> 01:30:21.138
Sukanya Sinha: Perfect.


491
01:30:21.138 --> 01:30:27.098
Takayuki SAEKI: And I think I think now we have a very good opinion on the on the screen.


492
01:30:27.768 --> 01:30:36.718
Takayuki SAEKI: Yeah, we we should think about the good efficiency, higher efficiency. But we should think about the user list.


493
01:30:37.548 --> 01:30:42.128
Takayuki SAEKI: I think this is a kind of a 2 wheels


494
01:30:42.308 --> 01:30:45.599
Takayuki SAEKI: of the car, I think.


495
01:30:46.368 --> 01:31:01.047
Takayuki SAEKI: we are human beings. So we we cannot stop thinking. We we would like to have a good technology more and more. That's our, you know, spirit. So we cannot stop thinking.


496
01:31:01.448 --> 01:31:10.907
Takayuki SAEKI: But the last, you know, a thousand years, a hundred years we increased energy usage


497
01:31:11.338 --> 01:31:25.627
Takayuki SAEKI: per person. But I think now this stage to to, you know, think about this kind of a lifestyle also. But we cannot stop thinking about the you know, new technology. But I think both we need. Now.


498
01:31:25.798 --> 01:31:35.448
Takayuki SAEKI: yeah, we should think about the lifestyle to use less energy. And also, we should think about the higher efficiency at once.


499
01:31:35.998 --> 01:31:38.547
Takayuki SAEKI: Okay, that's 1. My my opinion.


500
01:31:39.398 --> 01:32:04.107
Sukanya Sinha: Thank you. I think with that we have come to the end of the time, slot for the panel, and we have gone through most of the questions on the slide, or there were a few more which we would request you guys to find some time to answer later on, so that we can share it with the audience after the workshop ends. But yes, I mean it was


501
01:32:04.108 --> 01:32:29.212
Sukanya Sinha: a very stimulating discussion. I myself learned quite a lot from all the panel members. And I'd like to thank you all for your time and sharing your wisdom and all the efforts that's going on in the different labs. So yeah, virtual clapping. And yes, with that I think we are heading into the 1st health break. Because


502
01:32:29.878 --> 01:32:51.987
Sukanya Sinha: yes, sustainability is important, but so is mental health and not having zoom phatic, and we would conclude the session after 15 min. So we'll reconvene at 11 0. 5, with an amazing set of talks which are lined up, so please stay connected and take part in the talks as well.


503
01:32:52.158 --> 01:33:05.237
Sukanya Sinha: And yes, let's hope all the labs have more great information to bring to us in the future iterations of sustainable hip, with actual impactful results.


504
01:33:07.628 --> 01:33:09.037
Jie Gao: Okay. Thank you.


505
01:33:09.038 --> 01:33:10.218
Sonja Kleiner CERN: Thank you very much.


506
01:33:10.218 --> 01:33:13.357
Jie Gao: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Bye, bye, bye.


507
01:33:13.358 --> 01:33:13.768
Marumi Kado: Bye.


508
01:33:13.768 --> 01:33:15.098
Jie Gao: Bye, see you too.