WEBVTT 1 00:43:45.348 --> 00:44:08.348 So that was very strong and of course very useful for us within the organization who were working on environmental issues since Yeah, more than than a decay so There was a real change within the organization Thanks indeed to, I would say, the leadership of fabiola. 2 00:44:08.348 --> 00:44:26.348 What also really helped was the update of the European strategy and here i Yeah, I fully share that young scientists are the driving forces behind because now there is a dedicated chapter on environment and social issues. 3 00:44:26.348 --> 00:44:40.348 And certain directorate has aligned actually the current strategy on on the let's say the major actions that were highlighted through this European strategy. 4 00:44:40.348 --> 00:44:55.348 So thanks to this. I would say we had really elements coming from the directorate to to let's say increase the awareness internally. 5 00:44:55.348 --> 00:45:10.348 I mean, the fact that we were publishing our environment reports was also really a will of our director general so but we had already many information settled down so we were quite well prepared, I would say at that time. 6 00:45:10.348 --> 00:45:26.348 Because this environment issue has been always been handled actually by CERN. I would say it was not exposed, not communicated, but there was really already a long lasting internal work that was going on. 7 00:45:26.348 --> 00:45:46.348 Also, mid-21 to mid-22, we organized a kind of communication campaign. It was called the CERNS year of environmental awareness with regular articles in our internal newsletter that we call the CERN Bulitzer. 8 00:45:46.348 --> 00:46:16.348 But it's a public document, either really article on various environmental domains or infographic information But we organized also a workshop on environmental topics in autumn 22 that was open to the whole CERN community It was a one and a half day workshop so where we also discussed really and shared the information, explained the status with respect to various environmental domains. 9 00:46:16.348 --> 00:46:34.348 And more recently, we also organized a town hall that took place in November last year where we informed actually the CERN community about the high priority objectives for energy emissions in water. 10 00:46:34.348 --> 00:46:56.348 And we informed them about the horrors in 2030. So… Yeah, that helps. I must say another thing that is now very interesting where we see how awareness is increasing is also that these topics are now discussed in the council sessions. 11 00:46:56.348 --> 00:47:18.348 That was not the path, I would say the case in the past but more and more also member state representatives give their opinion share their views and influence somehow the decisions then that are taken internally at CERN. 12 00:47:18.348 --> 00:47:25.348 So that is also very, very interesting. Briefly about the training. 13 00:47:25.348 --> 00:47:39.348 We also recently within the HSE unit developed a training for new supervisors at cern And we include now fully the, I would say, environmental protection and sustainability topic. 14 00:47:39.348 --> 00:47:46.348 Here we have the advantage that safety at CERN includes actually environmental protection since ever. 15 00:47:46.348 --> 00:47:53.348 It's not only safety of people or of the public, but also environment. 16 00:47:53.348 --> 00:48:03.348 But let's say that we speak a bit more on these topics and provide information is new for the supervisors. So that certainly will help in the coming years. 17 00:48:03.348 --> 00:48:11.348 We have also information in the onboarding sessions when you join actually the organization. 18 00:48:11.348 --> 00:48:17.348 And still briefly about the direct interactions. So we have a steering board. 19 00:48:17.348 --> 00:48:37.348 For environmental protection. Where you have the department leaders actually that are present or group representatives And this also, of course, contributes to, I would say, spread awareness and information towards the organization. 20 00:48:37.348 --> 00:48:56.348 Because there are many topics that are discussed and many information is shared and then Yeah, it's somehow the information is diffused within the departments But of course, all this takes a lot of time, but we see things are really evolving positively. 21 00:48:56.348 --> 00:49:15.348 But I fully share that without a strong leadership a director that is explicitly I would say stating the commitment it's more difficult so we have this now since 2016 at CERN and you really can measure the progress 22 00:49:15.348 --> 00:49:26.348 Thank you. Yes, it's resonating that the leaders of the labs need to make an initiative to make things happen. Then we go to Ishi. 23 00:49:26.348 --> 00:49:27.348 If you'd like to add something. 24 00:49:27.348 --> 00:49:34.348 If you'd like to add something. Yes. So yeah, this is a good question. 25 00:49:34.348 --> 00:50:01.348 Person that I think the conscious needs uh come from uh the needs the real needs Because that is uh to uh this consciousness needs to appear naturally and with motivation and become strong and strong. And also this consciousness will be linked with action. 26 00:50:01.348 --> 00:50:15.348 So, so, so… In terms of IHOP, I think this sustainability question uh is uh getting… to be paid more and more. 27 00:50:15.348 --> 00:50:38.348 Attention and consciousness Firstly, by the direction of the lab i mean through the lab CPC, because… the construction and the operation of this big machine as a factory this is something real and this is the real motivation So we need to face this one so this is a 28 00:50:38.348 --> 00:50:49.348 A good example to make conscious of the whole lab and different branches and scientists and engineers. 29 00:50:49.348 --> 00:51:09.348 So this is, I think, it's very important without facing to the difficulty and facing the problems and this consciousness can be established But maybe gradually. So through something concrete So that from the direction of the lab. 30 00:51:09.348 --> 00:51:15.348 And also emphasizing to start from very beginning. 31 00:51:15.348 --> 00:51:21.348 To reach the goal. Is to make optimum design. 32 00:51:21.348 --> 00:51:40.348 Of your machine because different scientific goals with different design you will have a different ratio of scientific output divided by your cost or your CO2 equivalent carbon emission. 33 00:51:40.348 --> 00:51:51.348 So you need to make a good design first. Secondly, to identify the the key technology which contribute most to the goal. 34 00:51:51.348 --> 00:52:04.348 And then to make the adequate and to get the enough necessary foundings for this technical research. 35 00:52:04.348 --> 00:52:19.348 Such as the Klystrom's high efficiency chly strons which is very much supported by the directors of IHOP, especially if on one former director and also the actual director of Jun Ciao also. 36 00:52:19.348 --> 00:52:29.348 So this, I agree with the previous uh panelists that the direction of the lab is really very important in this. 37 00:52:29.348 --> 00:52:46.348 And… and the sustainability of high energy physics in general And a project like associated with a lab. So this is what I would like to say. 38 00:52:46.348 --> 00:52:49.348 Thank you. 39 00:52:49.348 --> 00:53:11.348 Thank you. I guess the concerns are resonated amongst all the different labs which leads me to the second question. What are the current challenges in terms of funding that you're facing in implementing sustainable initiatives in your facilities and if money was no object 40 00:53:11.348 --> 00:53:18.348 Is there one bold change that you would like to implement your lab? 41 00:53:18.348 --> 00:53:45.348 Okay, so that's a very good question. So I think we are scientists. So I think in principle, we should think about you need to propose any subject or project to the government to get the funding so i think uh 42 00:53:45.348 --> 00:54:11.348 In the process of the application, you should always should be a very awareness or sensitive to the energy consumption and the sustainability And I think… I think in recent trend, we are very conscious and also very sensitive to this kind of a subject 43 00:54:11.348 --> 00:54:18.348 So always we are thinking about energy consumption and the new application or new project. 44 00:54:18.348 --> 00:54:31.348 That is a very nice tendency and uh but still the pressure to achieve scientific uh you know results it's very heavy. 45 00:54:31.348 --> 00:54:44.348 So sometimes we only think about the scientific results. And we don't think about the energy consumption or sustainability. 46 00:54:44.348 --> 00:54:59.348 But step by step we are changing in mind to, you know, implement such a sustainability in the uh our project or application new subject. 47 00:54:59.348 --> 00:55:08.348 So I think if I remember 10 years or 20 years ago, nobody's think about their sustainability in your application. 48 00:55:08.348 --> 00:55:22.348 Or you're presenting the new project. But if I go into the go to some any workshop or conference. 49 00:55:22.348 --> 00:55:33.348 Recently, everybody talk about sustainability in some parts. So that's, I think, a very nice trend, I think. 50 00:55:33.348 --> 00:55:56.348 And we should continue this challenge. It's a it's a long long-term challenge but we should uh do this kind of a challenge And also the from government side I think they should accept such a project that contains a more sustainable 51 00:55:56.348 --> 00:56:07.348 Or conscious environmental consciousness. Is in mind project. 52 00:56:07.348 --> 00:56:21.348 That's very important because we are very aware about the environment and energy consumption but the government rejects such kind of a concept. We cannot get funding. 53 00:56:21.348 --> 00:56:30.348 So I think we'd like to say, I would like to say that the government should also very conscious to the environment. 54 00:56:30.348 --> 00:56:48.348 And the second question, I think, what's about change in laboratory So I'm a scientist. So I think I would like to use much time. 55 00:56:48.348 --> 00:57:12.348 More longer time to to think about the sustainability in science For example, I'm working on the superconductivity But if I think more, I spend more time to sustainability, I think I can have some kind of an image of the new project or new 56 00:57:12.348 --> 00:57:35.348 Application but uh they normally people are very busy and you are 100% occupied with the current project and so on So I think if I have time, then I would have a very new idea about sustainability and we can implement 57 00:57:35.348 --> 00:57:51.348 It in the laboratories and your groups And finally, in the you know community head community Okay, that's a kind of a uh degree but uh my answer. 58 00:57:51.348 --> 00:57:52.348 Thank you. 59 00:57:52.348 --> 00:57:56.348 Thank you, Taku Kissan. Yes. Next, who wants to go ahead? Yeah, go ahead, Mari. 60 00:57:56.348 --> 00:58:26.348 Thank you. So funding is uh incredibly complicated question in our field i mean funding for fundamental resources the dire situation almost everywhere right so clearly it would be ideal if funding agencies were able to not push the question on us without necessarily adding funding for this. 61 00:58:28.348 --> 00:58:32.348 But of course, in the current situation, this is a huge challenge. 62 00:58:32.348 --> 00:58:42.348 To give you an idea for an institute like us. The driving factor is really electricity in germany in particular. 63 00:58:42.348 --> 00:58:53.348 Electricity is essentially even five times more from the numbers for the overall mass plant society is five times more than air travel. 64 00:58:53.348 --> 00:59:12.348 So if I had to make a bold, and of course, if you remove the funding question, if I had If I had all the money i i wanted Then clearly, I mean, the immediate thing you have to do is to go to sustainable energy sources. 65 00:59:12.348 --> 00:59:25.348 In full right and and uh so and and then you know for all for the for all the operations of the institutes and the labs but also the fleets of cars and so on and so forth so this this would be 66 00:59:25.348 --> 00:59:35.348 I think the bold thing to do with all the funds If I could have any funds, then of course this would be the thing. 67 00:59:35.348 --> 00:59:42.348 Yes, renewable energy sources are not cheap. That's always a problem. 68 00:59:42.348 --> 00:59:56.348 Yeah, so I was rather reflecting on internally actually what are the funding challenges for environmental or sustainability initiatives. So within CERN. 69 00:59:56.348 --> 01:00:12.348 And maybe… just for your understanding, I mean, we have this environmental protection steering board that actually identifies with departments what are the priority actions that should be taken? 70 01:00:12.348 --> 01:00:19.348 And asks actually the budget to the directorate for a period of five years. 71 01:00:19.348 --> 01:00:25.348 And this exercise is repeatedly every year. 72 01:00:25.348 --> 01:00:40.348 And the requests, they must be done by the end of february then there is like a pre-approval by the directorate in early spring and this is then finally pushed to council sessions. 73 01:00:40.348 --> 01:00:45.348 That are taking place, usually decision is taking place in June. 74 01:00:45.348 --> 01:01:00.348 So this mechanisms actually work now quite good and departments are really playing the game, if I may say, in collaboration with the CERN Environmental Protection Steering Board. 75 01:01:00.348 --> 01:01:18.348 Then departments might also themselves propose some strong actions linked to environment or sustain And maybe I just highlight one example that we experienced early 21. 76 01:01:18.348 --> 01:01:26.348 So there was the site and engineering department that was asking for the consolidation of the two heating plants we have. 77 01:01:26.348 --> 01:01:33.348 For providing heat to the main campuses. There is one in Switzerland, one in France. 78 01:01:33.348 --> 01:01:54.348 Maybe you know the names, Marin and Previs. So to… I would say integrate either new heating plant but that works with heat pumps with energy recovery from a new data center that was also foreseen on the site in Previser. 79 01:01:54.348 --> 01:02:11.348 And on the mirror side, yeah, to also use recover waste heat from cooling towers that would supply the heat pump. And then I would say produce provide the energy to the overheated network we have. 80 01:02:11.348 --> 01:02:21.348 But in 21 This request was actually refused by CERN Directorate. However. 81 01:02:21.348 --> 01:02:29.348 They highlighted that it is a concern and they will reflect on it and they see this will be important. 82 01:02:29.348 --> 01:02:38.348 And the second attempt then in 22 was accepted. And this was just at the beginning of the energy crisis. 83 01:02:38.348 --> 01:03:06.348 Because the current heating plans are still working with gas. And… Yeah, the beginning of the European, I would say, mainly European energy crisis probably strongly influenced that decision somehow we also see internally that it depends also on geopolitics and local concerns, of course, of the whole state's authorities. 84 01:03:06.348 --> 01:03:20.348 Now reflecting about a bold change. If I would have a magic wand in the hands, I would change the current RPCs within Atlas and CMS. 85 01:03:20.348 --> 01:03:27.348 Or enabling a complete change of gas mixture, banning synthetic compounds. 86 01:03:27.348 --> 01:03:38.348 But joke apart. I would also really take care of changing the layout of the CERN campuses. 87 01:03:38.348 --> 01:03:49.348 You may know them. There is too much concrete too many private cars, many old buildings. 88 01:03:49.348 --> 01:03:54.348 And it's clearly progressing. But very slowly. 89 01:03:54.348 --> 01:04:05.348 And… I would say at certain we understand that priority is given to the accelerator infrastructure. 90 01:04:05.348 --> 01:04:15.348 But I think for the campus we should have actually the same ambitions That's the first impression you get when you come to CERN. 91 01:04:15.348 --> 01:04:23.348 And I would say even the youngest scientists there are they are very sensitive to this. 92 01:04:23.348 --> 01:04:40.348 So it's also providing them, I would say let's say friendly and environmentally aware campus where they can reflect on their signs. 93 01:04:40.348 --> 01:04:48.348 And it's also the very visible part for our host state's authorities. 94 01:04:48.348 --> 01:05:04.348 So clearly it looks today like the investments that would be dedicated to the site tertiary infrastructure or standard infrastructure is a bit in competition with science. 95 01:05:04.348 --> 01:05:15.348 And I believe there should be somehow a better equilibrium between CERN's scientific mission and how actually this mission is carried out. 96 01:05:15.348 --> 01:05:20.348 So that's a bit my thought. 97 01:05:20.348 --> 01:05:22.348 Thank you, Sonia. Would you like to add anything? 98 01:05:22.348 --> 01:05:37.348 Do you like to add any? Yeah, so still, I think this question is very meaningful Because this link that was found And which is a very limiting factors to all of us. 99 01:05:37.348 --> 01:05:44.348 However, I think the willingness and the determination is very important. 100 01:05:44.348 --> 01:05:57.348 So that is the first saying. We really need to fix the target and to to find the ways to reach that, including founder. 101 01:05:57.348 --> 01:06:03.348 Because found in general is very important. If found stopped is not a continuous curve. 102 01:06:03.348 --> 01:06:10.348 Your activity was stopped. So you are not to overcome a difficulty technical difficulty to reach your goal. 103 01:06:10.348 --> 01:06:15.348 Anyway, we will reach the goal through at least some technologies to reach the goal. 104 01:06:15.348 --> 01:06:26.348 So to overcome all these difficulties. If you don't have enough motivation If you don't have enough motivation to find a founder. 105 01:06:26.348 --> 01:06:38.348 Or if you don't have enough motivation to continue to find found facing to the failures of the way to reach your goal. And it will be stopped. 106 01:06:38.348 --> 01:06:46.348 So I think all experiences is that first we have a clear goal. 107 01:06:46.348 --> 01:06:54.348 And secondly, we have some found to do that. For example, high efficiency colostrums. 108 01:06:54.348 --> 01:07:07.348 And imagine this fund is from the so-called general channels. And then maybe after one cholesterol, there's some failure you run out of the phone and it stopped. 109 01:07:07.348 --> 01:07:21.348 However, fortunately, we have found from director and the specific found and then we can continue to overcome the difficulties and failures during the and finally success. 110 01:07:21.348 --> 01:07:38.348 To this so that is first the thing I would like to underline that I found this very important and continuous found is very important also Secondly, I would say that the fund from our institute's own pocket is only one same. 111 01:07:38.348 --> 01:07:45.348 To have found from industry to collaborate with industry with the common goal. 112 01:07:45.348 --> 01:08:15.348 That is another important thing. So I would like to emphasize that the success or the experiences is that the industry involvement It's very important to have success, overcome the difficulties of technology and to reach the goals together with industry, with the common goal of efficient components. 113 01:08:15.348 --> 01:08:25.348 And sustainability for the sustainability. Scientific development in general. So this is what I want to share. 114 01:08:25.348 --> 01:08:46.348 Thank you, Shia. So that brings us to the end of the first part of the session with the pre-prepared questions. And we have a lot of questions on Slido. So in the interest of time and to go through most of the questions which got a lot of upvotes, I will read through them and I would request 115 01:08:46.348 --> 01:09:01.348 Any of the panelists to give a short response to them so that we can target all the questions. So the first question that was posted by the audience on Slido was the new colliders have carbon budgets in their technical design reports. 116 01:09:01.348 --> 01:09:09.348 So is there a point at which you think that we should say this physics is not worth the carbon it will produce? 117 01:09:09.348 --> 01:09:13.348 So if someone wants to go ahead. 118 01:09:13.348 --> 01:09:21.348 So maybe I want to echo to this question. I think this question is quite public and very important. 119 01:09:21.348 --> 01:09:30.348 So firstly, the scientific goal, the father specifically for the Higgs factory for the future for high energy physics. 120 01:09:30.348 --> 01:09:41.348 In specific, I think the physics extremely important. So this is firstly, we're talking about the goal of scientific goal. 121 01:09:41.348 --> 01:09:55.348 For the human being to understand the universe from its beginning to the evolution and this is the so fundamental and important for the human being. 122 01:09:55.348 --> 01:10:02.348 So firstly, this is a very, very important scientific goal. 123 01:10:02.348 --> 01:10:19.348 Deserve the human being to spend. Not only the money, but also and the human resources to work collectively and towards reaching this goal. This is what I want to say. 124 01:10:19.348 --> 01:10:39.348 But secondly, to reach this goal, you need to waste, you need to consume energy anyway this is a natural law. You want to collide. You want to go to the deep into the matter And to dip into the vacuum and you need to energy 125 01:10:39.348 --> 01:10:50.348 To make it happen. So the most important thing is to we make this coefficient The efficiency. 126 01:10:50.348 --> 01:10:57.348 To increase the efficiency. Between the scientific goal and the CO2 emission. 127 01:10:57.348 --> 01:11:12.348 So according to our calculation. Imagine, just to make example, and we published a paper and which in my transparency yesterday and you can find the reference If we use nuclear power. 128 01:11:12.348 --> 01:11:32.348 Just for example, you can use others but less efficient but imagine And to produce including the construction, the tunneling and the operation and the totally running and in average if you count your several millions of heaks And for per hex 129 01:11:32.348 --> 01:12:01.348 We need to to produce these histories because as I said, this Higgs number is extremely important to make scientists study And the per higgs we need a mission of CO2 about one tons okay so so anyway this is a rough number, but it depends on many if you change some condition this can vary but this can give you an order of magnitude remember this is a one hex or one tenth. 130 01:12:01.348 --> 01:12:07.348 So this is connected with CO2 emission and the scientific output. 131 01:12:07.348 --> 01:12:25.348 So we're aware of this relation, but the thing is the scientific goal we need to do that. At the same time, we know how much And we will consume the power and also deliver the CO2. 132 01:12:25.348 --> 01:12:32.348 For us, the teasing is to work very hard to reduce this value. 133 01:12:32.348 --> 01:12:50.348 Again, and again. So even 1% efficiency of chly strong efficiency is important. It's a matter. So that's the reason why We continue to push the technology development in this direction, of course, including others. 134 01:12:50.348 --> 01:12:53.348 So this is what I want to say. 135 01:12:53.348 --> 01:12:58.348 Thank you. Anyone wants to add anything on top of what's already been said? 136 01:12:58.348 --> 01:13:11.348 Okay, so I think… this kind of a question Everybody always repeating in your mind But, uh. 137 01:13:11.348 --> 01:13:27.348 If you were born in your human body and you're a human being already use you'd like to think new thing and progress and so on. 138 01:13:27.348 --> 01:13:50.348 And I think this kind of problem is not solved forever. But if I would say some opinion from my side uh i think uh in HEP community, we did lots of experiments and for This is just one example, but think about led 139 01:13:50.348 --> 01:14:17.348 You always uh you know need light in the night in night but uh now you are using led and this kind of a technology new technology is coming from the science and the the old scientist who who who try to get the new technology and the new good technology. 140 01:14:17.348 --> 01:14:26.348 So I think Hicks factory this is a huge amount of uh you know uh carbon will be emitted. 141 01:14:26.348 --> 01:14:53.348 But you should think about that LED never come to our community if we didn't get the new technology and the new science So I think I cannot answer very quickly about this kind of subject or questions but I believe that we believe that 142 01:14:53.348 --> 01:14:59.348 We get the new technology then We have progressed. 143 01:14:59.348 --> 01:15:23.348 To you know uh much higher efficiency of the usage of the energy So now we are using LED and 100 years ago we are using uh you know uh uh the ball light It's 10 times more energy consumption compared with LED but 144 01:15:23.348 --> 01:15:48.348 We continued challenge to the science and then we get the higher efficiency So I think the the top of the science, we will consume more energy But finally, I believe that this comes to the more efficiency in the human being. 145 01:15:48.348 --> 01:15:55.348 The total word energy consumption should be reduced. 146 01:15:55.348 --> 01:15:57.348 That is my opinion. 147 01:15:57.348 --> 01:16:09.348 Thank you. And since we're already talking about technology, maybe we can move on to the next question, which was in Slido, which is, are there any direct technological developments in HEP? 148 01:16:09.348 --> 01:16:20.348 That would contribute towards greener technology. And I'll give Marmee and Sonia a chance to respond on this one. 149 01:16:20.348 --> 01:16:26.348 So I guess, Army, if you have any ideas already you can go ahead. 150 01:16:26.348 --> 01:16:47.348 Yeah, I mean, so of course, I would not add that much to this because you've seen throughout the conference technologies to improve the the environment and impact for HAP in general but the question, I suppose is more you know a broader question. Can technologies developed or stem from 151 01:16:47.348 --> 01:16:54.348 From what is done in HEP to the general society and and brings you know. 152 01:16:54.348 --> 01:17:10.348 Have a greater impact. So no, I would leave I mean, so yeah, maybe I can say so yeah, I can say a few things maybe just just to say just just to remind what CERN has been doing. So I thought you were actually asking sonia because 153 01:17:10.348 --> 01:17:35.348 So you know, for example, the programming development of superconductors. This is why I would leave this question to others but But clearly, development of superconductors is something that is going to help losing less energy. So this is this these i think that our labs have had a large impact, but I'm happy to leave all the answers to this one. 154 01:17:35.348 --> 01:17:59.348 Yeah, actually, maybe you remember about this third line of action that um let's say CERN should develop environmental technologies that may help society But you have to consider that actually that's not the primary mission of the science we do at CERN. So typically it's when 155 01:17:59.348 --> 01:18:29.348 We develop technologies for the accelerator infrastructure or the collaborations are developing technologies within the experiments It may result indeed in some I would say also environmental benefits Maybe in the past this potential was not explored sufficiently. I would say now it's clearly also a knowledge transfer domain 156 01:18:30.348 --> 01:18:51.348 That was highlighted within CERN. So since 21, it's really recognized And indeed, there are many, many, I would say, little projects that are ongoing In addition to, I would say, more big ones that are indeed linked to the superconducting 157 01:18:51.348 --> 01:19:21.348 Maybe energy transmission lines there is a collaboration with Airbus ongoing There is also a collaboration with ABB on, let's say motor operation So that is really, I would say, aimed at saving energy within society and within technologies that are used of the society. But again, I want to underline it's not CERN's primary mission. 158 01:19:21.348 --> 01:19:48.348 So… that is for me, I mean, I'm not scientist as you are. I'm not a physicist. So for me, that's a bit I would say the the delicate side effect Because, of course, we are aware that technologies may help a lot and bring a lot to society. 159 01:19:48.348 --> 01:19:59.348 But I think where we have to be more careful is also how this technology might be used in the future and if there might be stronger actually environmental side effects. 160 01:19:59.348 --> 01:20:13.348 So I think there we also have a strong responsibility now and this has to be well studied Before, I would say the first benefit is somehow openly shared. 161 01:20:13.348 --> 01:20:32.348 So that is maybe something to investigate also of course First, it's not the primary mission, but of course it's a new field of exploration and it is already integrated and will be for the future But we have to be careful. 162 01:20:32.348 --> 01:20:40.348 That actually then these technologies also don't bring other side effects. 163 01:20:40.348 --> 01:21:07.348 Thank you. Right so that then let's move on to the next question from Hannah, which is, it sounds like the sustainability efforts and groups within HIPAA quite unorganized or at the early stages of organization. What can be done to improve this? 164 01:21:07.348 --> 01:21:12.348 So maybe, sorry, maybe I misunderstood. Can you repeat? 165 01:21:12.348 --> 01:21:25.348 So it looks like the efforts of sustainability within HEP is quite unorganized right now or either in the early stages of formation So how could this be improved? 166 01:21:25.348 --> 01:21:44.348 Are there any ideas on the horizon to do this? Like having more interaction between the labs to have a common goal towards sustainability rather than having scattered groups in different labs. 167 01:21:44.348 --> 01:21:45.348 I mean, he… Can I jump in? Yeah. 168 01:21:45.348 --> 01:21:50.348 I mean, he… 169 01:21:50.348 --> 01:22:04.348 I think that's a bit of a challenge for us indeed. And we also consider that it has to be better investigated for the period 26 to 30. 170 01:22:04.348 --> 01:22:26.348 Because I think we have quite a good overview now within CERN who are the key stakeholders within the organization. I mean, really among the employed members of the personnel, but indeed reaching the collaborations is much more difficult also for us from an internal point of view. 171 01:22:26.348 --> 01:22:34.348 So… probably we would need more exchanges with the HEP community in general. 172 01:22:34.348 --> 01:22:51.348 And it's true that this is not organized on a regular basis. I mean, we have occasions like your super workshop And I'm so happy to see Since it's initiated, how much importance this takes now. 173 01:22:51.348 --> 01:23:11.348 But indeed, I think… more exchanges would be more appreciated also to share the views of i mean we are somehow monitoring the impact the current impact So we see actually what is going on, what are the difficulties and the challenges 174 01:23:11.348 --> 01:23:33.348 And from the outside, the collaborations they might see, okay, our compass is maybe not very friendly but actually it's not the main footprint we have within the campus. It's rather linked to the experiments and the experiments are actually handled by the collaborations. So it's also difficult for us 175 01:23:33.348 --> 01:23:46.348 From CERN internally to reach the collaborations. So, I mean, maybe one could consider about more regular forums over the year for for sure. 176 01:23:46.348 --> 01:23:50.348 Perfect. I see Marame's hand, maybe a short addition to what was on. 177 01:23:50.348 --> 01:24:08.348 Super short. I just want to say, so I completely agree with Sonia. I think it would be great and it would be interesting also to see what the governing bodies of help in general, like HEPA, IFCFA, um you know have have organized and maybe you know try to get these bodies to 178 01:24:08.348 --> 01:24:15.348 To organize events like this one which are fantastic 179 01:24:15.348 --> 01:24:27.348 Perfect. Right. So then we have a lot more questions and we're just like five minutes or so till then. So I'll quickly jump through to the next one. 180 01:24:27.348 --> 01:24:42.348 So the question is. What kind of initiatives would you implement to ensure your labs and the physics they do are insured against a future in which energy becomes scarce and expensive? 181 01:24:42.348 --> 01:24:48.348 And I know this is a very difficult question to answer on this part. 182 01:24:48.348 --> 01:24:55.348 Just a brief response from one person would be enough i guess 183 01:24:55.348 --> 01:25:02.348 Oh, uh… The question, would you print uh the question in the a chat page. 184 01:25:02.348 --> 01:25:06.348 Yes, so… So I think it's being tested in the 185 01:25:06.348 --> 01:25:17.348 I think. Yeah, I think the energy cost is a higher and higher and what do we should do and the headboard that's question. 186 01:25:17.348 --> 01:25:18.348 Yeah. 187 01:25:18.348 --> 01:25:45.348 Okay. Yes, I'm repeating many times in my opinion. We are scientists so uh as scientists the energy is coming through the technology For example, the atomic energy and so on and so on and so on the old time we are burning 188 01:25:45.348 --> 01:26:07.348 The coal or oots and so on. But now we are we have a very moved on technology to get energy So I think what we are doing in the hip We are using lots of energy, but if we continue this kind of a 189 01:26:07.348 --> 01:26:35.348 Uh you know uh challenge and uh improvement in the hip community to get the new technology then we can get more a higher stage higher stage to to use energy in a more efficient way I'm thinking always as a scientist. So I think it's a very good chance for us 190 01:26:35.348 --> 01:26:40.348 To appeal our you know existence to the people in the world. 191 01:26:40.348 --> 01:26:56.348 That the help community can contribute to this kind of a crisis we should think about the energy itself and how to get more efficient energy science and so on. 192 01:26:56.348 --> 01:26:59.348 That's my opinion. 193 01:26:59.348 --> 01:27:05.348 Thank you. So then we have another question from the audience, which is. 194 01:27:05.348 --> 01:27:17.348 How do we go from being just aware or informed to actually ask the really hard questions and change the way we do our science? Because there's a lot of discussion. 195 01:27:17.348 --> 01:27:23.348 In different places, but actually making an impact is the more difficult step. 196 01:27:23.348 --> 01:27:37.348 So are there any ideas from any of the panelists? 197 01:27:37.348 --> 01:27:42.348 It is, again, a very tricky question. To think of. 198 01:27:42.348 --> 01:27:52.348 Maybe I can just mention something which might be a bit provocative. 199 01:27:52.348 --> 01:28:03.348 I think it goes also moderating slightly the appetite for physics. 200 01:28:03.348 --> 01:28:17.348 When we have the council sessions. Medicine we we especially by the end of the year we usually hear many congratulations. 201 01:28:17.348 --> 01:28:36.348 And about the brilliant results That… that CERN is achieving through the accelerator complex and the experiment and the collaboration through all the yeah large experiments and smaller experiments that are running 202 01:28:36.348 --> 01:28:49.348 And of course, during the energy crisis, we had this moral obligation to also shorten the period of runs. 203 01:28:49.348 --> 01:28:56.348 And despite of that, actually, physics results, I think, were very, very positive. 204 01:28:56.348 --> 01:29:20.348 So sometimes I'm questioning myself actually if here there should also be some efforts. It's a different way of thinking and maybe limiting some i don't know statistical outputs or as i said a bit moderating the physics appetite. 205 01:29:20.348 --> 01:29:23.348 Perfect. Marame, would you like to add something. 206 01:29:23.348 --> 01:29:42.348 So this is important because I think the so it has to be, I do think that we we do face hard questions. And I think CERN As Sonia was saying has done it has done it when when we, I mean, we really sacrificed running a BHC at the time or the peak of the energy beings 207 01:29:42.348 --> 01:29:51.348 Okay. And then and then also you can see in the in the new design for the FCCHH. 208 01:29:51.348 --> 01:30:08.348 Uh the the you know the the sweet spot for the energy is now 85 td with 14 tesla magnets And this is a sweet spot because Because it's the best for the energy consumption. So, I mean, this is now an integral part 209 01:30:08.348 --> 01:30:16.348 Of a physics program. So I think we do address hard questions. 210 01:30:16.348 --> 01:30:20.348 We can of course do more and better. But we already do a current start. 211 01:30:20.348 --> 01:30:21.348 Perfect. 212 01:30:21.348 --> 01:30:28.348 Yeah, and… Yeah, and I think now we have a very good opinion on the on the screen. 213 01:30:28.348 --> 01:30:37.348 Yeah, we should think about good efficiency higher efficiency but uh we should think about useless. 214 01:30:37.348 --> 01:30:46.348 I think this is a kind of uh two wheels. Of the car, I think. 215 01:30:46.348 --> 01:31:01.348 We are human beings so we we cannot stop thinking we we would like to have a good technology more and more. That's our uh you know spirit. So we cannot stop thinking. 216 01:31:01.348 --> 01:31:11.348 But last, you know, thousand years, a hundred years we increased energy usage. 217 01:31:11.348 --> 01:31:26.348 Per person but i think now this stage to to you know think about this kind of a lifestyle also but we cannot stop thinking about you know new technology. But I think both we need now. 218 01:31:26.348 --> 01:31:39.348 Yeah, we should uh think about the lifestyle to use less energy and also we should think about the higher efficiency at once Okay, that's my opinion. 219 01:31:39.348 --> 01:31:58.348 Thank you. I think with that we have come to the end of the time slot for the panel and we have gone through Most of the questions on the Slido, there were a few more, which we would request you guys to find some time to answer later on so that we can share it with the 220 01:31:58.348 --> 01:32:19.348 Audience after the workshop ends. But yes, I mean, it was a very stimulating discussion. I myself learned quite a lot from all the panel members. And I'd like to thank you all for your time and sharing your wisdom and all the efforts that's going on in the different labs. So yeah. 221 01:32:19.348 --> 01:32:45.348 Virtual clapping. And yes, with that, I think we are heading into the first health break because um Yes, sustainability is important, but so is mental health and not having Zoom fatigue. And we would conclude the session after 15 minutes. So we'll reconvene at 11.05 with an amazing set of 222 01:32:45.348 --> 01:32:52.348 Talks which are lined up. So please stay connected and take part in the talks as well. 223 01:32:52.348 --> 01:33:02.348 And yes, let's hope all the labs have more great information to bring to us in the future iterations of sustainable hep. 224 01:33:02.348 --> 01:33:07.348 But actual impactful results. 225 01:33:07.348 --> 01:33:10.348 Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Bye. Bye-bye. 226 01:33:10.348 --> 01:33:11.348 Thank you very much. Bye. 227 01:33:11.348 --> 01:33:12.348 Thank you very much. Bye. Bye. 228 01:33:12.348 --> 01:33:14.348 Thank you. 229 01:33:14.348 --> 01:33:44.348 But you do.