WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.680 --> 00:00:31.559 Ilaria Vai: Okay, so a bit of change of topic for this last talk, because I'm going to present you an innovative approach to meet and capture through the Charlie Project, whose aim is to reuse gas recuperation system developed at Cern for gaseous detector, for management of emission from Levistock. 2 00:00:31.720 --> 00:00:57.359 Ilaria Vai: So, as I'm saying, the project is called Charlie ch. For Methanes, and our goal is to develop a prototype for methane emission capture in a burn environment which is, as I will show you in a few slides one of the major source of methane emission from human activities. 3 00:00:57.400 --> 00:01:22.090 Ilaria Vai: The idea is the one of reapply gas recuperation system developed to extract ch cf. 4. From Gaza Detector at Cern to the methane reabsorption. And this is an innovative approach, because usually methane emission are fought in live stock, in agriculture in general. 4 00:01:22.150 --> 00:01:35.590 Ilaria Vai: changing the habits of the animals. While here we want to act directly on the methane that has already been emitted, and is already in the atmosphere so improving the quality of life of the animals. 5 00:01:35.950 --> 00:01:49.010 Ilaria Vai: It's a strongly multidisciplinary activity which includes people working in different departments of the University of Pavia and Turin, from Cern and from Infn. 6 00:01:49.630 --> 00:02:19.180 Ilaria Vai: And so I will start my presentation giving you just having a look at global warming problem which you have already discussed in previous talk, as you know very well in the last 200 years since in this industrialization we observed an increase in the surface temperature of about one degree or more, which is mainly related to anthropogenic cause, and in particular greenhouse gas emissions, among which Co. 2 methane and other components. 7 00:02:19.320 --> 00:02:40.910 Ilaria Vai: methane in particular, as a important role in global warning, because it has a high Gvp of 28. And among the different sources related to humanity, activity we can find for sure agriculture, which, for example, in Italy, accounts for about 32% of the world methane emission. 8 00:02:41.860 --> 00:03:01.209 Ilaria Vai: The project, Charlie, as I was saying before, therefore, wants to attack the problem of meat and emission from agriculture, and in particular livestock emission, which is related to intake fermentation during the digestion of the food by cows. 9 00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:27.659 Ilaria Vai: So the 1st thing the 1st track of the project is to characterize the environment of the barn, both through simulation, computational fluid dynamic simulation made with console and in parallel in situ measurements to identify the accumulation point of methane in the barn where we will put our prototype for the capture. 10 00:03:27.710 --> 00:03:43.259 Ilaria Vai: Then we are working on the optimization of the methane absorbent. We started with test with the commercial zeolites, but now we are also moving it to the development of a new absorbent, dedicated to methane. Exactly. 11 00:03:43.340 --> 00:03:49.200 Ilaria Vai: And then, of course, the development of the methane capture prototype with the testing laboratory. 12 00:03:49.680 --> 00:04:13.610 Ilaria Vai: Let's start through an overview of the simulation. So simulation or computational field dynamics simulation that we want to use to predict the methane transport in the barn and to identify possible accumulation points in which we will install later our capture prototype. The final goal is to simulate the whole 3D. Geometry of the of the barn, like the one the selected barn. 13 00:04:13.610 --> 00:04:38.550 Ilaria Vai: like the one on the top left picture. But to do so we started with a two-dimensional simulation in which the cows are represented as point-like sources on the bottom of the geometry, and we use this 2D simulation to identify the best model that predicts the diffusion of a methane 14 00:04:38.550 --> 00:05:03.739 Ilaria Vai: and its interaction with the atmospheric conditions. So, for example, in the right plot, you see the results of this simulation with one turbulence model among those that we have tested, which simulates the speed of wind, one meter per second from left to right, and here the consequent results of the diffusion of methane and the concentration. 15 00:05:04.830 --> 00:05:29.839 Ilaria Vai: Once this simulation will be completed, we will compare them with the results of in situ measurements which are performed right now in 5 sampling points internal to the barn. This is an overview from the top of the barn, and these are the 5 points from p. 1 to p. 5, in which we are collecting air 16 00:05:29.860 --> 00:05:51.120 Ilaria Vai: through pipes, and this air, collected through pipes is analyzed with a capas. Analyzer capas means quartz enhanced photoacoustic spectroscopy analyzer, which measures the vibrational relaxation rate of the different gas pieces to understand the different concentration. 17 00:05:51.120 --> 00:06:08.949 Ilaria Vai: And then from this analysis, we estimate the emission of the different gases through a method developed on purpose by our colleagues and applied by our colleagues of the University of Turin, which is called the Co. 2 balance method. 18 00:06:10.070 --> 00:06:26.289 Ilaria Vai: These are the results of the 1st in situ measurements that were performed over the past year in the 4 different seasons. So here you can have a look at the value of the concentration of methane that we expect in the barn, which is something of the order of 10 19 00:06:26.290 --> 00:06:41.849 Ilaria Vai: maximum of 50 ppm, so the main, with some more concentration during summer, because enteric fermentation is ended by bacteria. So higher temperature allows for a higher production of mintane. 20 00:06:42.276 --> 00:06:57.219 Ilaria Vai: So the let's say the main difficulty of this project is to handle with the solo concentration which are order of magnitude, slower to what we are used to collect with the gas recuperation systems. 21 00:06:58.211 --> 00:07:21.720 Ilaria Vai: So the idea for the recuperation system, as I was saying, comes from Cms. Cathode Street Chamber system, which includes a cf. 4 recovery system, which will be discussed later in a dedicated talk by Marie Christina later this afternoon. So I will not spend much time on this slide, and I will go directly to our R. And D, 22 00:07:21.890 --> 00:07:37.650 Ilaria Vai: just saying that this system is working fine and is efficiently separating cf. 4 from the other component of the mixture. The only difference, the main difference, I was saying is that cf, 4, here is of the order of few percent inside of the mixture. 23 00:07:38.250 --> 00:08:02.180 Ilaria Vai: the absorbent, so we say the main part of the work is to find the correct absorbent for ch for methane. We started from commercial zellites, the same used for cf. 4. Because, as you can see from the left, from the right part of the plot, the structure of the molecule is almost the same, and it's very similar. So we expected 24 00:08:02.300 --> 00:08:16.040 Ilaria Vai: commercial Zellites that are working for cf. 4 to work also for methane. But in parallel we are working also on the development of a new material dedicated to the absorption of methane. 25 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:36.819 Ilaria Vai: How did we select it and carried out our test on zeolites? So we started with a diluted mixture containing 0 point 4 5% quantity or percentage of methane. We passed it through the filter with the zeolites, and then we analyzed the output with a gas chromatograph. 26 00:08:36.960 --> 00:09:01.419 Ilaria Vai: Everything is in a wreck. So it's a very compact system. And here you have an example of the chromatogram that you get at the output. Here you have the peak of the methane until zeolites are completely absorbing the methane. The peak is not present as soon as the absorption is not efficient anymore. You start to see the methane. So the saturation curve that you get for 27 00:09:01.420 --> 00:09:10.969 Ilaria Vai: sees a 1st part in which there is no peak so full absorption. Then the breakthrough position in which you start to see the peak. 28 00:09:10.970 --> 00:09:33.230 Ilaria Vai: then partial absorption and finally saturation, where the what you measure with the Zc. Is the same that you put inside with the bottle. So everything the cartridge is fully saturated from here we calculate both the volume absorbed at saturation and at the breakthrough. And from this data we compare the different Zeolides. 29 00:09:33.940 --> 00:09:49.690 Ilaria Vai: and here you have the comparison between 4 type of zeolites that we have tested the 2 more promising are these 2, where the number z. 5 and z. 10, where the number represents the size of the pores. So we moved on, only focusing on these 2. 30 00:09:49.900 --> 00:10:11.800 Ilaria Vai: When you completely feel the zeolites and it is saturated. If you want to reuse it, you need to regenerate it, and you can do it to 2 methods, one based on high temperature and the other one based on vacuum. So we wanted to compare the results. The performance of the 2 different kinds of zeolites regenerated in the 2 methods. 31 00:10:11.820 --> 00:10:38.049 Ilaria Vai: especially because vacuum one is more energy saving with respect to temperature. So from this test. We actually decided to continue the test only on Z. 5, because you can see that the performance after the 2 kind of regeneration are more similar. So vacuum is working better for Z. 10 than for Z. 5 than for Z. 10. 32 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:54.000 Ilaria Vai: And here you see that after many cycle of regeneration and absorption, the system maintains stable performance. So we are actually happy of the fact that the the system continues to work as expected. 33 00:10:54.340 --> 00:11:13.959 Ilaria Vai: Last thing, as the system will be installed in the bar. Now we expect to have also other conditions like, for example, the presence of humidity. So we wanted to be to be sure that we could get rid of humidity in our system, and we did that, adding a second filter based on that 3 34 00:11:13.970 --> 00:11:25.039 Ilaria Vai: which is known to be very attractive for water, and we proved that we could actually capture water and then again capture methane with Z. 5. 35 00:11:25.150 --> 00:11:42.170 Ilaria Vai: So we were still actually able to catch the methane after having absorbed all the water. The only thing is that we noticed a reduction in the quantity of methane absorbed, using a lower concentration of methane. 36 00:11:42.420 --> 00:11:56.679 Ilaria Vai: So to summarize what I can tell you, I can tell you that with our 1st test we successfully proved that we can capture meeting with the system at a percentage of the order of 0 point 1%, 37 00:11:56.760 --> 00:12:18.329 Ilaria Vai: we could prove that the vacuum regeneration is effective with our zeolites, and also that we get total absorption of humidity using a pre-filter based on Z. 3. Then we found hints of a relationship between the adsorption, capability, and the partial pressure of methane. 38 00:12:18.330 --> 00:12:27.160 Ilaria Vai: or, in other words, between absorption, capability and the concentration of methane in our input mixer. 39 00:12:28.091 --> 00:12:49.430 Ilaria Vai: Which is something that is very important from our point of view, because we need to go to even lower concentration of meeting. And these this relationship is right now under study to understand which is the limit at which we can work. And that's all for me. If you have any question. 40 00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:50.540 Ilaria Vai: thank you. 41 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:54.420 Yann Coadou: Thank you. I see Duane has a question. 42 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:21.529 Dwayne Spiteri: Hi, Laura, this is a very interesting talk. I sort of have 2 very small ways to questions. So the 1st one is you've talked about this methane extraction. But you have a farm on the ground, and then this gas rises. So at what point do you extract the methane from this from the air into these zealites. And then the second related question is, is. 43 00:13:21.900 --> 00:13:40.239 Dwayne Spiteri: is the is that where the end of life is? Do you have to store this zeolite somewhere to keep the gas from escaping? Do you know what the the gas escaption rate, or how long the expectancy. That the ch. 4 molecule will stay trapped on the surface of this zeolite is. 44 00:13:41.902 --> 00:14:07.030 Ilaria Vai: So I thank you for your very interesting questions. I will start from this second one regarding the the extracted methane. We are considering 2 possibility. One is to for example, when we do vacuum regeneration of the of the cartridge, we could, let's say, suck the methane out 45 00:14:07.170 --> 00:14:21.150 Ilaria Vai: and store it for our user. But of course, this is, let's say, useful and energetic advantages only if we manage to collect a reasonable quantity of methane. 46 00:14:21.340 --> 00:14:25.470 Ilaria Vai: the other possibility is as you was. You were saying 47 00:14:26.146 --> 00:14:46.180 Ilaria Vai: to let's say, discard saturated lights and store them somewhere. This is also something interesting for our colleagues from the University of Turin. They were considering the possibility also to use them to do that 48 00:14:46.180 --> 00:15:11.179 Ilaria Vai: we don't know yet which is the best solution, because we are still at the prototype phasing. We are collecting very small quantity of methane right now. You see, we are talking about 20 milliliters because we are using 250 grams of zeolites in our prototype right now, so I cannot tell you right now which is the most energetic 49 00:15:11.180 --> 00:15:22.980 Ilaria Vai: advantages, but both the the possibility are being considered, and are actually one of the goal of the project is to understand which is the best one from the energetic point of view. 50 00:15:23.180 --> 00:15:28.470 Ilaria Vai: and regarding instead the other question, so where do we get the error? 51 00:15:28.670 --> 00:15:53.890 Ilaria Vai: So this is really related to the results that we will get from our measurements in in situ. Right now the collection here for these measurements is done at 5 meter from the from the ground, so there are pipes which sucks the air from 5 meter from the soil. 52 00:15:53.890 --> 00:16:17.399 Ilaria Vai: from the ground to analyze it. But if you have a look, for example, at this simulation, which is very preliminary. But anyway, it's already interesting. The higher concentration, of course, is closer to the animals, because they breathe there and then, also near the ground. You have the majority of the air that comes from them. 53 00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:25.640 Ilaria Vai: So one possibility could be to suck the air from closer to the, to the 54 00:16:25.970 --> 00:16:30.669 Ilaria Vai: to the ground and then put the the 55 00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:44.449 Ilaria Vai: capture prototype outside. So we just needed, let's say, the pump to cut to suck the air out of the of the barn and then separate the components. 56 00:16:45.931 --> 00:17:10.650 Ilaria Vai: But again, this is in evaluation. I think we will. Let's say the project is more or less at alpha of his way right now. We already had good results in particular, on the part of the prototype development and the lights testing we need to finalize the the characterization of the Barna. Yet I would say. 57 00:17:13.050 --> 00:17:14.180 Dwayne Spiteri: Thank you for your answer. 58 00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:28.060 Yann Coadou: Okay, thank you very much. I hope this goes forward. I'm just hoping that farmers will also change their way of feeding their cattle, because then they would not emit methane. But it's another debate beyond this. 59 00:17:28.750 --> 00:17:53.700 Ilaria Vai: Well, actually, our colleagues in the University of Turin. They exactly work on that. We started our collaboration with them because they were expert on this point, and they were, let's say there is a stronger relationship between university and farmers around in that region, and they are really eager to learn to how to improve 60 00:17:53.820 --> 00:18:03.549 Ilaria Vai: the quality of life of the animals, but also from the environmental point of view. I see that they are really open to make improvements, so. 61 00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:05.032 Yann Coadou: Okay, very good. 62 00:18:05.930 --> 00:18:10.749 Yann Coadou: So thank you to all speakers for this session. I suggest, we take.